Originally posted by dacristoy
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
John 3:16 Support for Limited Atonement
Collapse
X
-
. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIs that what you want? SEVERELY limited atonement?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostSo the non-believers should not perish either?
I hold the view Christ secured salvation only for His elect. Since I also believe Christ's death was for everyone, including the non-elect. That they would be condemned not merely for their sins, for which Christ did die. But because they rejected Christ for what ever reason. ". . . but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. " -- John 3:18.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCalm yourself, brother - I never said that.
You have a strange way of wording it, but if I understand you correctly, I don't have a problem with this. I think. Maybe.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostApparently God did. Else He would have given His son so that even the non-elect would not perish.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostI know. It was question wanting clarification.
The list would have been too long. [ATTACH=CONFIG]4034[/ATTACH]The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by dacristoy View Post1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Does not say "whole elect" does it
However, it is one thing for Christ to be a propitiation for sin and another for Christ to atone for sin. God gave His son so that His elect would not perish - thus Christ was offered not only as a propitiation for the sins of God's elect but specifically to propitiate the sins of God's elect.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostI don't see your point here. Certainly, Christ is the ONLY propitiation that exists for sin. Christ is, thereby, the only remedy for sin. He is the only propitiation available for the sins of God's elect and for the sins of any one else, even the whole world. That speaks to the infinite value of Christ's death.
However, it is one thing for Christ to be a propitiation for sin and another for Christ to atone for sin. God gave His son so that His elect would not perish - thus Christ was offered not only as a propitiation for the sins of God's elect but specifically to propitiate the sins of God's elect.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostApparently God did. Else He would have given His son so that even the non-elect would not perish.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostI was not aware that the Bible says that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world. Where did you read this?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
No matter how you slice it, John 3:16 says that Christ paid for "...whosoever believeth...". In that respect anyone who believes (until the end) is "elect" and therefore, saved by grace through faith in Christ. Not even sure why this is a debate point?..."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
Comment
-
It is a matter of a logical theology. Total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints. In that theological view, those points all stand and fall together. I only hold to the first and last of those five points, and I think my understanding is logical.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment