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John 3:16 Support for Limited Atonement

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
    1 John 2:2
    And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    Does not say "whole elect" does it
    I think a better questioning would be, does "our" refer to the "elect?" If so, how is the "whole world" also the elect? Seeing it says, "not for ours only."
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Is that what you want? SEVERELY limited atonement?
      So the non-believers should not perish either? I hold the view Christ secured salvation only for His elect. Since I also believe Christ's death was for everyone, including the non-elect. That they would be condemned not merely for their sins, for which Christ did die. But because they rejected Christ for what ever reason. ". . . but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. " -- John 3:18.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        So the non-believers should not perish either?
        Calm yourself, brother - I never said that.

        I hold the view Christ secured salvation only for His elect. Since I also believe Christ's death was for everyone, including the non-elect. That they would be condemned not merely for their sins, for which Christ did die. But because they rejected Christ for what ever reason. ". . . but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. " -- John 3:18.
        You have a strange way of wording it, but if I understand you correctly, I don't have a problem with this. I think. Maybe.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Calm yourself, brother - I never said that.
          I know. It was question wanting clarification.


          You have a strange way of wording it, but if I understand you correctly, I don't have a problem with this. I think. Maybe.
          The list would have been too long. img_1205443545686_21.jpg
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
            Why are you basing this off one verse?
            I am just stating that which the verse says - God gave His son so that His elect would not perish.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Is that what you want? SEVERELY limited atonement?
              Apparently God did. Else He would have given His son so that even the non-elect would not perish.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                For what purpose do you say God gave His son...
                To atone for the sins of the whole world.
                I was not aware that the Bible says that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world. Where did you read this?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                  Apparently God did. Else He would have given His son so that even the non-elect would not perish.
                  No, the God you cooked up in your head did.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    I know. It was question wanting clarification.


                    The list would have been too long. [ATTACH=CONFIG]4034[/ATTACH]
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
                      1 John 2:2
                      And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
                      Does not say "whole elect" does it
                      I don't see your point here. Certainly, Christ is the ONLY propitiation that exists for sin. Christ is, thereby, the only remedy for sin. He is the only propitiation available for the sins of God's elect and for the sins of any one else, even the whole world. That speaks to the infinite value of Christ's death.

                      However, it is one thing for Christ to be a propitiation for sin and another for Christ to atone for sin. God gave His son so that His elect would not perish - thus Christ was offered not only as a propitiation for the sins of God's elect but specifically to propitiate the sins of God's elect.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                        I don't see your point here. Certainly, Christ is the ONLY propitiation that exists for sin. Christ is, thereby, the only remedy for sin. He is the only propitiation available for the sins of God's elect and for the sins of any one else, even the whole world. That speaks to the infinite value of Christ's death.

                        However, it is one thing for Christ to be a propitiation for sin and another for Christ to atone for sin. God gave His son so that His elect would not perish - thus Christ was offered not only as a propitiation for the sins of God's elect but specifically to propitiate the sins of God's elect.
                        For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                        Hey, I just saw the list. You're not elected!

                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                          Apparently God did. Else He would have given His son so that even the non-elect would not perish.
                          His Son died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15).
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                            I was not aware that the Bible says that Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world. Where did you read this?
                            "Ànd he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world." -- 1 John 2:2.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              No matter how you slice it, John 3:16 says that Christ paid for "...whosoever believeth...". In that respect anyone who believes (until the end) is "elect" and therefore, saved by grace through faith in Christ. Not even sure why this is a debate point?...
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                It is a matter of a logical theology. Total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints. In that theological view, those points all stand and fall together. I only hold to the first and last of those five points, and I think my understanding is logical.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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