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John 3:16 Support for Limited Atonement

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  • John 3:16 Support for Limited Atonement

    John 3:16

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    "...whosoever believes in him..." tells us that all people will not be saved. Even though God is said to "so love" the world, that love does not mean that all people will be saved. It is only those who believe in Christ who will be saved.

    "...whosoever believes in him..." describes an unique group of people - those who will be saved. Those who believe in Christ are also called God's elect. Thus, we can read John 3:16 this way-

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that God's elect should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    As John 3:16 emphasizes, God gave His son so that His elect would not perish. It was never God's intent to save all people and He did not send Christ to the cross to save all people.

  • #2
    The verse doesn't have anything to do with atonement one way or the other.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think that's unnecessarily narrow, brother. Jesus was, indeed, talking about God giving His only Son....
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
        The verse doesn't have anything to do with atonement one way or the other.
        The verse says, "God gave His son." So, do we not ask what purpose God had for giving His son the end result of which would be that His elect "should not perish, but have everlasting life"?

        Galatians 1:4 tells us, "[Christ] gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:"

        God gave His son whose purpose was to do the will of His Father and that will was that Christ give Himself for the sins of the elect. Should we not tie that to the atonement?

        For what purpose do you say God gave His son if not to atone for the sins of His elect?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I think that's unnecessarily narrow, brother. Jesus was, indeed, talking about God giving His only Son....
          And...... Did you intend to complete your thought and tell us God's purpose for giving His son?

          Comment


          • #6
            And what of those that never knew God/Jesus/Bible?
            "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
            "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
            Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
              And what of those that never knew God/Jesus/Bible?
              They are among the non-elect. The requirement for salvation is clear - "...whosoever believes in him..." is the one who does not perish.

              For the person who never knew God/Jesus/Bible, there can be no salvation. Can there?

              Comment


              • #8
                Why are you basing this off one verse?
                "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                  And what of those that never knew God/Jesus/Bible?
                  "For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.". -- Romans 2:11-16.
                  . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                    And...... Did you intend to complete your thought and tell us God's purpose for giving His son?
                    Not really. I thought you were doing OK.


                    ETA: Ah, but I see in subsequent posts maybe Obsidian was onto something!
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                      They are among the non-elect. The requirement for salvation is clear - "...whosoever believes in him..." is the one who does not perish.

                      For the person who never knew God/Jesus/Bible, there can be no salvation. Can there?
                      Is that what you want? SEVERELY limited atonement?
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am persuaded that Christ died for all to either secure their salvation or to be their Judge:

                        ". . . For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. . . . for we shall all stand before the judgment-seat of God. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God." -- Romans 14:9-11 ASV.

                        ". . . Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." -- Philippians 2:9-11 ASV.

                        "For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men, . . ." -- Titus 2:11 ASV.

                        ". . . and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world." -- 1 John 2:2 ASV.

                        John Owen who stands against the view of general redemption, actually quipped in his TO THE READER, "What purpose does a general ransom serve, except to assert that Almighty God would have the precious blood of his dear Son poured out for countless souls whom he will not allow to benefit from a single drop of it? And so, in respect to them, his blood is spilt in vain, or it is shed for them only to damn them more deeply."
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RHutchin
                          The verse says, "God gave His son." So, do we not ask what purpose God had for giving His son the end result of which would be that His elect "should not perish, but have everlasting life"?
                          I repeat: The verse does not address the atonement. You can speculate all you want to, but it has nothing to do with this verse.

                          For what purpose do you say God gave His son if not to atone for the sins of His elect?
                          To atone for the sins of the whole world.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rhutchin View Post
                            The verse says, "God gave His son." So, do we not ask what purpose God had for giving His son the end result of which would be that His elect "should not perish, but have everlasting life"?

                            Galatians 1:4 tells us, "[Christ] gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:"

                            God gave His son whose purpose was to do the will of His Father and that will was that Christ give Himself for the sins of the elect. Should we not tie that to the atonement?

                            For what purpose do you say God gave His son if not to atone for the sins of His elect?
                            1 John 2:2
                            And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
                            Does not say "whole elect" does it

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
                              1 John 2:2
                              And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
                              Does not say "whole elect" does it
                              You have to take that in the overall context of the Gospel. He is the propitiation, sure enough, but a person needs to accept that.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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