The ten commandments and being saved

[IwreckNsow]

Now are you trying to say that when Paul speaks of 'commandments' he means the 10 commandments? How do you find support for this in the words of Jesus or of Paul?

LUKE 18 [20] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

The translated word for commandments in the above scripture is “entole”. As you can see its the 10 commandments. No doubt about it.

1 Corinthians 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The translated word for commandments in 1Cor.7 is again “entole”

MATTHEW 19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The translated word for commandments in Matthew 19 is “entole”. Again the 10 commandments.

1 JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The translated word for commandments in 1 John 5 is “entole”. Same exact word used in Luke and again in Matthew. Yup, Gods very own ten commandments.

HEBREWS 11 [22] By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave COMMANDMENT concerning his bones.

entellomai,;from Greek 1722 (en) and the base of Greek 5056 (telos); to enjoin :- (give) charge, (give) command (-ments), injoin. Not the 10 commandments, but a simple command.

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my COMMANDMENTS. [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

These commandments are translated from the word “entole”. Same “entole” you find in Luke and again in Matthew. Gods 10 commandments.

REVELATION 22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The word commandments found in Rev.22 is in the greek the word entole. Directions to the city

[IwreckNsow]

Your quote of 1Cor 7 does not seem to add any strength to an argument saying that the 10 commandments are emphasized by Paul.

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

Pauls writings are hard to understand at times and a lot of people {to their own destruction} dont quite get it.

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing now. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

[IwreckNsow]

I think some people have sort of the fear that Christians will seek anarchy and seek to do everything evil just because the commandments, laws, and statutes, as given to the Jews, were not also given to the gentiles.

According to Paul they were givin to the gentiles

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

It was for Israel only. Was. We were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture was one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2 and if you were to go look at all the wonderful promises of this covenant, should you take hold of it, you’d be amazed.

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company

[mikewhitney]

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

Pauls writings are hard to understand at times and a lot of people {to their own destruction} dont quite get it.

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing now. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

You still haven't addressed the point just made "Your quote of 1Cor 7 does not seem to add any strength to an argument saying that the 10 commandments are emphasized by Paul. "

And the only way Paul's message would not violate the laws of the Jews is that Paul's audience were not considered obligated to the rules given to Jews. Indeed you would be reasonable to observe that Paul did not tell Jews to violate any of the laws given to them by God. But this does not then obligate gentiles to follow their laws.

[mikewhitney]

According to Paul they were given to the gentiles

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

It was for Israel only. Was. We were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture was one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2 and if you were to go look at all the wonderful promises of this covenant, should you take hold of it, you’d be amazed.

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company

I'm not sure how you are addressing my point with what you have stated. In part you have used a text ascribed to Israel (e.g. Exo 31:16) in a discussion essentially about non-Jewish people. Now if gentiles were not under the covenant of Moses, how can they be covenant breakers? (It is beyond the current discussion to examine the role of Rom 1:18-31 within the letter -- but it was the Jews who were identified with the idea of 'covenant' and hence would fit as 'covenant breakers'. Now if the Jews themselves were covenant breakers, how would you expect gentiles to be any better when faced with the same Mosaic laws?)

Also, it seems you made an error by assuming that since gentiles enjoy a covenant of promise that somehow this covenant was built using the Jewish laws. This is the point that is still lacking support in the arguments you have made thus far.

[IwreckNsow]

Your proposal is going against the very heart of what Paul was speaking against.

Now are you trying to say that when Paul speaks of 'commandments' he means the 10 commandments? How do you find support for this in the words of Jesus or of Paul?

Words from Jesus

Matthew 19:16-19 (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Then He names a few of the 10 commandments. Because the sabbath is not mentioned or dont be makin graven images is not mentioned doesnt mean you can ignore those commandments

[IwreckNsow]

Indeed you would be reasonable to observe that Paul did not tell Jews to violate any of the laws given to them by God. But this does not then obligate gentiles to follow their laws.

Again from the writings of Paul

ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In Romans 7 we see that the law is spiritual. In Romans 15 we see the gentiles are made partakers of that law

ROMANS 15 [25] But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.[26] For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.[27] It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. FOR IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

[mikewhitney]

LUKE 18 [20] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

The translated word for commandments in the above scripture is “entole”. As you can see its the 10 commandments. No doubt about it.

1 Corinthians 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The translated word for commandments in 1Cor.7 is again “entole”

MATTHEW 19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The translated word for commandments in Matthew 19 is “entole”. Again the 10 commandments.

1 JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The translated word for commandments in 1 John 5 is “entole”. Same exact word used in Luke and again in Matthew. Yup, Gods very own ten commandments.

HEBREWS 11 [22] By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave COMMANDMENT concerning his bones.

entellomai,;from Greek 1722 (en) and the base of Greek 5056 (telos); to enjoin :- (give) charge, (give) command (-ments), injoin. Not the 10 commandments, but a simple command.
The word commandments found in Rev.22 is in the greek the word entole. Directions to the city

You have shown, at best, that a certain root word is used when discussing the 10 commandments. And in Matt 19, Jesus was apparently testing this man's heart. Jesus was not giving a teaching -- not to Jews, in general, and especially not to gentiles here. Then, interesting enough against your exclusive use of 'commandment' for the 10 commandments, you have shown that Joseph could also give a commandment -- one not found in the 10 commandments.

It is a common error to assume a word has a single (and universal) meaning. You seem to be making this mistake. The evidence you have provided only shows that you are rubbering stamping the usage of a word in one passage during those times when the word, with a similar or same root, appears in another passage.

So I am still wondering how you think that Paul or Jesus had instructed us to follow the 10 commandments for salvation.

[IwreckNsow]

So I am still wondering how you think that Paul or Jesus had instructed us to follow the 10 commandments for salvation.

For salvation. No way. Your saved by grace alone. We are but filthy rags.

EPH.2 [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. Period. It is a free gift. But to whom is this free gift given? Verse 10 says that those people who will receive the free gift of grace will be walking in good works. What are these good works which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that "we must walk in"?

2 JOHN 1 [4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Youve heard it from the beginning {before ordained}. Its the 10 commandments that we should walk in. But we will fall short. We will sin. No one but Jesus has kept the 10 commandments perfectly.

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] FOR HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, WHICH HE COMMANDED OUR FATHERS, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all know who opened his mouth in parables and who established a testimony in Jacob. Yup, its JESUS CHRIST. So according to Eph.2 Gods people who recieve the free gift of grace, will be walking in the “WORKS” that God ordained {verse 7}. But...verse 9 and 10 prophecies of what will happen to the “many”, because they refuse to walk after the 10 commandments.

TITUS 1 [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

[mikewhitney]

For salvation. No way. Your saved by grace alone. We are but filthy rags.

You have helped establish some credibility by your response here.
You may have to clarify how you distinguish between the idea of 'kingdom' and 'salvation' in order for us to understand the question in your original post.

...edited in as an after thought:
Are you saying that 'saved to the kingdom' is a better situation than being merely saved?

EPH.2 [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. Period. It is a free gift. But to whom is this free gift given? Verse 10 says that those people who will receive the free gift of grace will be walking in good works. What are these good works which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that "we must walk in"?

This just says were are commanded to good works. This sounds like a new commandment. To associate this with the 10 commandments you would have to establish that the 'before' was through the 10 commandments rather than a later time (such as the arrival of Christ) or an earlier time (e.g. the time of Adam).

2 JOHN 1 [4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Youve heard it from the beginning {before ordained}. Its the 10 commandments that we should walk in. But we will fall short. We will sin. No one but Jesus has kept the 10 commandments perfectly.

The text of 2John is not clear on the meaning of commandments. We do have a clue that the commandments of interest are focused on 'love.' However the 10 commandments did not include a commandment to love one another. So how do you wish to show that the 10 commandments are unexpectedly addressed here?

TITUS 1 [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Again we see that 'commandments' can be made by a source other than God (or Moses). This point contradicts your inclination to apply 'commandment' to only the 10 commandments.

So why are you thinking that the 10 commandments are enforced as a legal requirement upon Christians?

[IwreckNsow]

God changed the covenant, the priesthood, and the Law, because the Law could make NOTHING perfect.

Heb 7:19 for the Law made nothing perfect

Heb 7:28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.

What law made nothing perfect?

Hebrews 7
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Verse 27. Theres the points of the law that made nothing perfect. No more animal sacrificies. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgiveness of sins

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Out with the old. In with the new

[IwreckNsow]

...edited in as an after thought:
Are you saying that 'saved to the kingdom' is a better situation than being merely saved?

Hi Mike
Thats actually the only place the saved are goin and Jesus will be there with us. We aint headin for heaven at anytime

John 3:12-13 (KJV)
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

[IwreckNsow]

The text of 2John is not clear on the meaning of commandments. We do have a clue that the commandments of interest are focused on 'love.' However the 10 commandments did not include a commandment to love one another. So how do you wish to show that the 10 commandments are unexpectedly addressed here?

Your sayin we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, Thou shalt not bear false witness, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.

JOHN 15 [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[9] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.[10] IF YE KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, ye shall abide in my love; even as I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS, AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.

[Bill the Cat]

As you can see they were givin to Abe

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

These are not the Decalogue, which scripture declares several times were given to Moses on Sinai.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Whats do the scriptures say about faith?

GALATIANS 3[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[13] CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH.

Christ did not come to destroy the law but came to redeem us from the curse of the law that we might recieve the promise of the spirit through FAITH.

Correct. No one claims He came to destroy it. He came to fulfil its requirements on our behalf so that those who accept Him are free from the punishments proscribed by that law.

BUT...

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This scripture says what it says. Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law (10 commandments).

Correct. The law is what lets us know what God considers sin. That is what a "schoolmaster" meant to a Greek speaking city of Galatia.

Then the scripture goes on to say the same thing again (in case you missed it the 1st time). We are under the law (our schoolmaster) UNTIL we are justified by faith.

Nope. We are not under the law unless we choose to be. We are not Jews (at least I am not), so therefore, I do not have to submit to the obsolete covenant.

Faith is not something that you mysteriously attain attain at birth. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

We do not obey the law in order to "keep saved". Only apostasy can remove our salvation. That's where you fail miserably. The Decalogue is wholly unnecessary for salvation and is in fact obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

If we live the Law of love that Jesus gave, we will naturally not violate any of the 10. But, we do not live by the Old, we live by the New with better priesthood and promises.

Heb 8:7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
Heb 8:8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

Heb 8:9
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

FAITH AND THE COMMANDMENTS

The Command of Jesus is to love the One God and to love one another. On this the whole of the Law rests (Mark 12:29-31).

[mikewhitney]

Hi Mike
Thats actually the only place the saved are goin and Jesus will be there with us. We aint headin for heaven at anytime

John 3:12-13 (KJV)
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

So we are left with the question about the role of the 10 commandments as you envision these commandments take on within a Christian's life and salvation. What are you saying we must do? and what are the consequences of not doing these? Your original post addressed the idea of being saved in connection with the 10 commandments.