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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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The ten commandments and being saved

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Ah, one of THOSE!
    Ya sayin theres more than 1 of me?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by IwreckNsow View Post
      If yer gonna correct all my spellin.....yule be a busy man
      Laughing. Fair enough!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by IwreckNsow View Post
        Ya sayin theres more than 1 of me?
        Yup. A dime a dozen.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Yup. A dime a dozen.
          Oh good, another one. I shall call him mini-Michael.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
            Oh good, another one. I shall call him mini-Michael.
            Well, so far he's POLITE! Gotta give him that! And he doesn't pretend to be a "a writer".
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by IwreckNsow View Post
              Nope. Dont know what label you might put me under. Read along time ago in the bible that the whole world would be decieved, so i threw out all i heard and all i was told and started studying the bible on my own. I was very surprised at what i found.
              When Jesus chose his disciples, He didn't just give them a book and say, "here, read this" -- he invested 3 years of His life in them, teaching, traveling, eating, instructing...

              When Paul was training Timothy, he didn't just give him a bunch of letters and say, "here, read these" -- he took him with him on missionary journeys and spent time with him, showing him what the work of the Gospel was all about.

              Before you try to become a self-made Paul, you really need to be a Timothy.

              Find some faithful men who can help point you in the right direction. Get involved in a Bible-teaching Christ-preaching Church.

              2 Tim 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by IwreckNsow View Post
                Read along time ago in the bible that the whole world would be decieved, so i threw out all i heard and all i was told and started studying the bible on my own.
                Congratulations! You have been deceived: by your own self.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by IwreckNsow View Post
                  Yes Cow Poke. Jesus did make the sabbath for man. So why would man turn his back on Jesus and try to create a different day of rest. Dont make sence to me. Jesus also said He was Lord of the sabbath day
                  Hebrews 4 says TODAY is the Sabbath rest for Christians. That means EVERY DAY we rest in Him. We no longer serve the shadow of once a week rest. We rest in Him forever more.

                  Heb 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
                  Heb 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
                  “Today if you hear His voice,
                  Do not harden your hearts.”

                  Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
                  Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
                  Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Well, so far he's POLITE! Gotta give him that! And he doesn't pretend to be a "a writer".
                    Or a Creole
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It's like TeeJay all over again.

                      probably should be moved to unorthodox.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        Or a Creole


                        I had forgotten about that part!!!!!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yeah, works salvation is heretical. You don't do good works to be saved, you are saved to do good works. Faith= loyalty=salvation + works
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            Hebrews 4 says TODAY is the Sabbath rest for Christians. That means EVERY DAY we rest in Him. We no longer serve the shadow of once a week rest. We rest in Him forever more.

                            Heb 4:6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
                            Heb 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
                            “Today if you hear His voice,
                            Do not harden your hearts.
                            Just what does it mean Bill to "hear His voice"

                            HEBREWS 3 [12]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. [13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

                            GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

                            Honest Abe heard Gods "voice" and so he kept His commandments

                            JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

                            Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.

                            DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God . [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

                            DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

                            It is truly Gods 10 commandments. The “voice” we are to hear

                            ZEPHANIAH 3 [1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! [2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. [4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

                            Youll find those lions and wolves mentioned in the new covenant scriptures. The bad guys

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Why do these guys start sounding similar after a while? Even when they claim to be original...
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
                                Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
                                Hey again Bill the Cat. You speak of a new rest in Jesus. But verse 9 says there "remains" a sabbath rest. How can a new rest in Jesus remain if its new?

                                Verse 10

                                HEBREWS 4 [10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

                                Verse 10@11 says we are to enter the same rest as God did

                                HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

                                God rested the 7th day.

                                Comment

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