Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Nephilim and the flood

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Nephilim and the flood

    There seems to be an idea among modern scholars that the Nephilim were probably good guys. So says Ellen White.

    "It is unlikely that this interpretation is correct because Genesis 6:4 presents nothing but praise for the Nephilim and no criticism is present." - Dr. White

    Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    Because they were men of renown they were probably good guys. Later information about giants and the flood was probably due to Greek influence. (I Enoch, Jubilees, Josephus, Philo)

    That overlooks what the rest of the OT says.

    Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants (Nephilim): and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

    Num 13:22-33, Josh 15:13-14, Deu 9:2, Deu 1:28, Deu 2:10, Deu 3:11

    If they were good guys why did God command that their evil (Lev 20:23) descendants be destroyed?

    Some would complain that the Nephilim were all destroyed in the flood. Then where did Num 13:33 come from?

    Note that after the flood that Nimrod became a renowned giant.

    Gen 10:8 And Chus begot Nebrod: he began to be a giant (Heb. gibbor) upon the earth.
    Gen 10:9 He was a giant hunter before the Lord God; therefore they say, As Nebrod the giant hunter before the Lord.
    Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babylon, and Orech, and Archad, and Chalanne, in the land of Senaar. (LXX)

    Nimrod's people wanted to build a tower to heaven and make a name for themselves. They wanted renown!

    The similarity between the flood and tower of Babel shows the same pattern.

    1. Evil giants of renown
    2. Destruction, flood and confusion languages

    Conclusion: Renown and being mighty on the earth aren't always a good thing.
    The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

  • #2
    Doesn't it actually mean "fallen ones" or one who has fallen.


    • #3
      According to Dr. White;

      It was once claimed that the mating of the sons of god and the daughters of Adam that resulted in the Nephilim caused the flood, and this caused the Nephilim to have a negative reputation. This was believed because the next verse (Genesis 6:5) is the introduction to the flood narrative and because their name means “fallen ones.” It is unlikely that this interpretation is correct because Genesis 6:4 presents nothing but praise for the Nephilim and no criticism is present. In addition, the name “fallen ones” is likely a reference to their divine paternity transforming—falling—into the human condition, albeit an almost superhuman condition.
      I don't have a problem with the definition, but I don't understand her conclusion. I think it must come from some goofy source critical idea.
      The Capitol Insurrection And Religion


      • #4
        Moving to Theology 201.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill


        • #5
          Okay, but the flood is directly concerned with eschatology more than general theology.

          Luke 17:26-30, Mat 24:37-39, Jud 6-7, 2 Pe 2:5-6, 1 Pe 3:19-20
          The Capitol Insurrection And Religion


          • #6
            If they were the good guys wouldn't they have been given a bigger role in the scriptures? Wasn't that how it worked in the ancient world -- if you were good you were memorialized in print; if you were bad, you were erased from print for the most part except only where it was necessary?


            • #7
              You make a good point Sean.

              Notice when Jesus mentions the flood.

              Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
              Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
              Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
              Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
              Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

              Jesus specifically mentions marriage before the flood. What is the only marriage in Genesis 6 in relation to the flood?

              Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

              It occurs to me that what Jesus says here is usually taken as life was going on day to day and nothing out of the ordinary was happening. However, that is not the picture presented in Genesis or I Enoch.

              Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

              There is nothing average about the earth being so evil that God decides to destroy it with a flood. In I Enoch it tells about a shortness of food because of the ravenous giants, so even the eating and drinking might be an allusion to this. People were surviving, and then the end came unexpectedly. There was great tribulation. Jesus was talking to people who knew these writings, as shown in the Dead Sea scrolls.

              As it was in the days of Noah!

              Also, it is likened to Sodom and Gomorrah. Nothing day to day about that.
              Last edited by eschaton; 11-24-2014, 12:06 PM. Reason: addition
              The Capitol Insurrection And Religion



              Related Threads


              Topics Statistics Last Post
              Started by footwasher, 03-14-2021, 01:55 PM
              468 responses
              Last Post rogue06
              by rogue06