Forced Conversions Split

[Darth Executor]

Conversion in Europe was to a large degree token. The great cathedrals were never filled, most people simply gave lip service to Christianity. That is still true today.

I don't believe that for a second.

[Jedidiah]

Roman emperors progressively outlawed paganism. I think the idea that forced conversion doesn't work is magical thinking that developed in the west once liberal ideas started permeating society.

Conversion in Europe was to a large degree token. The great cathedrals were never filled, most people simply gave lip service to Christianity. That is still true today.

[Darth Executor]

Oh, you think those were forced conversions. People tended to do what the king did, at least eventually. And (pagan) Rome had a thing about targeting druids, which didn't help the survivability of the indigenous religions.

Roman emperors progressively outlawed paganism. I think the idea that forced conversion doesn't work is magical thinking that developed in the west once liberal ideas started permeating society.


As an aside, where the heck is my strike tag? Snark is a lot harder without it.

[One Bad Pig]

Yeah that's why there's still all those pagans around Europe.

Just because some families don't end up converted doesn't mean that's the norm.

Oh, you think those were forced conversions. People tended to do what the king did, at least eventually. And (pagan) Rome had a thing about targeting druids, which didn't help the survivability of the indigenous religions.

[Darth Executor]

No, it just leads to a pretense of belief, while the suppressed belief gets passed down in secret, even across generations. Christianity, for example, was suppressed in Japan for 4 centuries (on pain of death), yet was still being passed down. There is evidence of secret Jews coming to light even today after yet longer time periods.

Yeah that's why there's still all those pagans around Europe.

Just because some families don't end up converted doesn't mean that's the norm.

[One Bad Pig]

What people believe can be quite flexible. It's obvious forced conversion does lead to genuine belief, especially across generations.

No, it just leads to a pretense of belief, while the suppressed belief gets passed down in secret, even across generations. Christianity, for example, was suppressed in Japan for 4 centuries (on pain of death), yet was still being passed down. There is evidence of secret Jews coming to light even today after yet longer time periods.

[Darth Executor]

You can force people to say things but you cannot force them to believe.

What people believe can be quite flexible. It's obvious forced conversion does lead to genuine belief, especially across generations.

[Teallaura]

How? Christ never prohibited forced conversions. You can derive that from His other teachings but it's hardly direct.

John 3:16. You can force people to say things but you cannot force them to believe. Belief, not verbal acknowledgement, is critical and therefore forced conversions are indeed in direct opposition to Christ's teaching.

[Darth Executor]

Shake the dust off your feet and leave.

Was forced conversion a realistic option?

[KingsGambit]

How? Christ never prohibited forced conversions. You can derive that from His other teachings but it's hardly direct.

Shake the dust off your feet and leave.

[Darth Executor]

such forced conversions go directly against the teachings of Christ

How? Christ never prohibited forced conversions. You can derive that from His other teachings but it's hardly direct.