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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Merits/Demerits of Reformed Theology VS. Jehovas Wittnesses.

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  • Merits/Demerits of Reformed Theology VS. Jehovas Wittnesses.

    What qualifies one and disqualifies the other as mainstream Christianity?

  • #2
    Why are these two groups in particular being singled out for comparison? You might as well ask "what qualifies Baptists as evangelicals but not Hindus?"

    But as for your specific question, some of the most basic reasons JW's are considered outside are their denial of the Trinity and their repeated false claims regarding dates of the end of the world. Are there any problems in particular you are thinking of with the Reformed?
    Last edited by KingsGambit; 09-02-2014, 12:34 PM.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
      What qualifies one and disqualifies the other as mainstream Christianity?
      Historical creeds of the Church.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        Why are these two groups in particular being singled out for comparison? You might as well ask "what qualifies Baptists as evangelicals but not Hindus?"
        My first response is "Why Not?"
        Because I have problems with both...
        But if you would like to start with Baptists VS Hindus, OK...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
          My first response is "Why Not?"
          Because I have problems with both...
          But if you would like to start with Baptists VS Hindus, OK...
          Well, okay, I disagree with how Methodists conduct baptism, so that's considered a problem, but I don't consider them outside orthodoxy. It's certainly not a problem on the level of denying the Trinity or the incarnation.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            Well, okay, I disagree with how Methodists conduct baptism, so that's considered a problem, but I don't consider them outside orthodoxy. It's certainly not a problem on the level of denying the Trinity or the incarnation.
            Firstly, I do not feel that orthodoxy has been sufficiently defined and agreed upon by the Christian Community to establish a standard to establish ones acceptance as Christian or not...

            I understand and agree with your evaluation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but when I evaluate the validity of Reformed Theology’s T.U.L.I.P, I find errors that are just as troublesome…

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
              Firstly, I do not feel that orthodoxy has been sufficiently defined and agreed upon by the Christian Community to establish a standard to establish ones acceptance as Christian or not...

              I understand and agree with your evaluation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but when I evaluate the validity of Reformed Theology’s T.U.L.I.P, I find errors that are just as troublesome…
              Why are they just as troublesome as denying the full divinity of the Lord Jesus? There is a huge difference between error and heresy, and I think you are unnecessarily blurring that line.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                Why are they just as troublesome as denying the full divinity of the Lord Jesus? There is a huge difference between error and heresy, and I think you are unnecessarily blurring that line.
                Would you defined that difference for me from your perspective....

                Definition of heresy (n)
                Bing Dictionary
                her·e·sy
                [ hérrəssee ]

                1.unorthodox religious opinion: an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by a religious authority
                2.holding of unorthodox religious belief: the holding of, or adherence to, an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by religious authorities
                3.unorthodox opinion: an opinion or belief that does not coincide with established or traditional theory, especially in philosophy, science, or politics

                synonyms: dissent · deviation · unorthodoxy · profanation · sacrilege · heterodoxy
                Last edited by dacristoy; 09-03-2014, 02:58 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
                  Would you defined that difference for me from your perspective....

                  Definition of heresy (n)
                  Bing Dictionary
                  her·e·sy
                  [ hérrəssee ]

                  1.unorthodox religious opinion: an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by a religious authority
                  2.holding of unorthodox religious belief: the holding of, or adherence to, an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by religious authorities
                  3.unorthodox opinion: an opinion or belief that does not coincide with established or traditional theory, especially in philosophy, science, or politics

                  synonyms: dissent · deviation · unorthodoxy · profanation · sacrilege · heterodoxy
                  Source: http://www.equip.org/perspectives/heresies-and-aberrations-what-is-the-difference/


                  RELIGIOUS HERESY- Definition
                  The word “heresy,” in its most common usage, refers to false teachings that destroy. They are destructive because they overturn the basic elements which make up the historic Christian faith, substituting in their place doctrines which distort or contradict the teachings found in the Bible.

                  RELIGIOUS HERESY- The Essentials
                  The doctrines of the Trinity, the unique deity of Jesus Christ, and the resurrection are among the essentials of Christianity. They represent the core of Christian belief as contained within the pages of Scripture, and they compose what is commonly called “orthodox theology.” And thus, heresies are teachings which openly deny any one of these fundamental doctrines. Examples of heresies include the Mormon doctrine that there are many gods, and that you may become one, as well as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who clearly deny the Trinity.

                  RELIGIOUS HERESY- Heresy Vs. Aberration
                  It may be the case, however, that a particular teaching does not overtly deny basic biblical theology, but is nevertheless dangerously inconsistent with an orthodox confession of faith. A good example of this would be the “prosperity” teachers who are growing like wildfire within Christian denominations — doctrines of this variety are referred to as aberrations. Thus, a group may be orthodox in its central theology while at the same time maintain teachings and practices that are clearly at odds with essential Christian theology.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  Basically, an individual in error is to be corrected by the leadership while one in heresy is to be rejected from the congregation.
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    Why are they just as troublesome as denying the full divinity of the Lord Jesus? There is a huge difference between error and heresy, and I think you are unnecessarily blurring that line.
                    I don't think that denying "Christ came that all men might be saved" is mere adiaphora. Of course, I could be wrong about that, but it seems to me that the teaching critically undermines the message of the gospel.
                    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      I don't think that denying "Christ came that all men might be saved" is mere adiaphora. Of course, I could be wrong about that, but it seems to me that the teaching critically undermines the message of the gospel.
                      Have to agree with you on that one.
                      What, if anything, do you find egregious or troubling with Reformed Theology's T. U, L. I. P...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                        I don't think that denying "Christ came that all men might be saved" is mere adiaphora.
                        IMHO, It's not a core doctrine disagreement as much as a "what do you mean by ALL men"


                        Of course, I could be wrong about that, but it seems to me that the teaching critically undermines the message of the gospel.
                        I disagree. I think it relies too much on specific verses, but, again, this would be best corrected from within the body of Christ. It's never been declared heretical by an ecumenical council.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          I don't think that denying "Christ came that all men might be saved" is mere adiaphora. Of course, I could be wrong about that, but it seems to me that the teaching critically undermines the message of the gospel.
                          I believe that denying a literal interpretation of the phrase "all men" attacks the veracity of many other passages of scripture.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Historically it's a combination of date setting, rejection of the Trinity, legalism, and cultish behavior such as demanding that members cut off contact with relatives who offend the JWs.

                            You can find each of these things elsewhere, but the combination is troubling. Reformed, Arminian, Pentecostals, Catholics differ in significant ways, but none of them has the kind of attitudes and behavior that would cause me to classify them as cults (though some come close).
                            Last edited by hedrick; 09-05-2014, 07:16 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dacristoy View Post
                              I believe that denying a literal interpretation of the phrase "all men" attacks the veracity of many other passages of scripture.
                              It does come down to interpretation. Perhaps provision of a few compelling verses would help. All that I have seen so far are questionable (to put it politely) interpretations of verses that sometimes aren't even on topic.
                              Last edited by tabibito; 09-05-2014, 08:07 AM.
                              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                              Comment

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