God's Love and Allowing Evil

[footwasher]

Are you falsely accusing me now of not sticking to the subject?

You are not sticking to the subject if you don't answer the questions.

[Dave L]

You are not sticking to the subject if you don't answer the questions.

Ask any question. One at a time. Using the least amount of words necessary to clarify it. And I will do my best to answer it. I ignore long posts in most cases.

[footwasher]

Ask any question. One at a time. Using the least amount of words necessary to clarify it. And I will do my best to answer it. I ignore long posts in most cases.

Did God give the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, which Paul calls receiving the Holy Spirit, to ALL the Israelites, or not (Gal 3:1-5)?

[Dave L]

Did God give the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, which Paul calls receiving the Holy Spirit, to ALL the Israelites, or not (Gal 3:1-5)?

Most were wicked God-haters who worshipped idols. Notice how many rejected God when he began preaching the gospel of the kingdom. And how they clung to premillennialism while rejecting the kingdom. And how they killed him rather than junk their views and follow him.

[footwasher]

Most were wicked God-haters who worshipped idols. Notice how many rejected God when he began preaching the gospel of the kingdom. And how they clung to premillennialism while rejecting the kingdom. And how they killed him rather than junk their views and follow him.

See you are avoiding the question. Just answer Yes or No.

Did all the Israelites in the Exodus receive the Holy Spirit, faith strengthening bread from heaven?

[Dave L]

See you are avoiding the question. Just answer Yes or No.

Did all the Israelites in the Exodus receive the Holy Spirit, faith strengthening bread from heaven?

Look at the trouble they caused. It took 40 years to make an 11 day journey because of their rebellion and paganism.

[footwasher]

Look at the trouble they caused. It took 40 years to make an 11 day journey because of their rebellion and paganism.

See you are avoiding the question. Just answer Yes or No.

Did all the Israelites in the Exodus receive the Holy Spirit, faith strengthening bread from heaven?

Did they ALL:

Heb 6:4 "...taste the heavenly gift, partake of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and the powers of the world to come..."?

Did God say:

Numbers 14:22“Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, 23shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. 24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

?

Sorry, that was a long post and I know you said you couldn't cope, but the proof was just too much, and I couldn't resist. Hope it helps to convince you, though.

[Dave L]

See you are avoiding the question. Just answer Yes or No.

Did all the Israelites in the Exodus receive the Holy Spirit, faith strengthening bread from heaven?

Did they ALL:

Heb 6:4 "...taste the heavenly gift, partake of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and the powers of the world to come..."?

Absolutely not. They were among the most wicked people on earth.

[footwasher]

Absolutely not. They were among the most wicked people on earth.

So who never received the Holy Spirit? The text says everyone received faith creating strength from the Holy Spirit, but only Caleb, benefited from the rain, the ground, and bore fruit, had a changed spirit, changed his loyalty from mammon to God, was born again.

Heb 6:7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Luke 13:7"And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'

Matt 11:20Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22“Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23“And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24“Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.”

[Dave L]

So who never received the Holy Spirit? The text says everyone received faith creating strength from the Holy Spirit, but only Caleb, benefited from the rain, the ground, and bore fruit, had a changed spirit, changed his loyalty from mammon to God, was born again.

Heb 6:7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Luke 13:7"And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'

Caleb and Joshua had the Holy Spirit along with those listed in Hebrews 11. God cave the rest the law under threat of death. Born again people don't need law. It's written in their heart. How many times have you read the Old Testament?

[footwasher]

Caleb and Joshua had the Holy Spirit along with those listed in Hebrews 11. God cave the rest the law under threat of death. Born again people don't need law. It's written in their heart. How many times have you read the Old Testament?

Receiving the Holy Spirit is defined as receiving the faith creating ministry of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit caused a food shortage, and then rescued from that calamity. This was to show the Israelites that God could always save, and they needed to believe this, create a faith in God by themselves using this proof, because they would need it, to pick up crosses and be rescued, and draw people to God, in the Kingdom. It's a schema, an entire package. See the Jews getting miracles done here, described as receiving the Holy Spirit, to create the faith needed for them to be allowed into the Kingdom, be sanctified, set apart, for honorable use:

Gal 3:1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? ^a4Have you experienced ^b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

[Dave L]

Receiving the Holy Spirit is defined as receiving the faith creating ministry of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit caused a food shortage, and then rescued from that calamity. This was to show the Israelites that God could always save, and they needed to believe this, create a faith in God by themselves using this proof, because they would need it, to pick up crosses and be rescued, and draw people to God, in the Kingdom. It's a schema, an entire package. See the Jews getting miracles done here, described as receiving the Holy Spirit, to create the faith needed for them to be allowed into the Kingdom, be sanctified, set apart, for honorable use:

Gal 3:1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? ^a4Have you experienced ^b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Why did God judge them so severely if they were not wicked beyond belief? Only Two faithful entered the promised land. The rest died in the wilderness. An 11-day journey that took 40 years.

[footwasher]

Why did God judge them so severely if they were not wicked beyond belief? Only Two faithful entered the promised land. The rest died in the wilderness. An 11-day journey that took 40 years.

Bro, God judged them severely not because they were elected to be damned.

God judged them severely because:


Heb 6:7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Please, good grief! They had been given more proof than required. I'm sure if you had been in their position, you would have done even better than Caleb. But their fault was in not creating faith, not bearing fruit, with the proof they got, the edification they got. Not because God had decided that they would not be the Elect.

[Dave L]

Bro, God judged them severely not because they were elected to be damned.

God judged them severely because:


Heb 6:7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Please, good grief! They had been given more proof than required. I'm sure if you had been in their position, you would have done even better than Caleb. But their fault was in not creating faith, not bearing fruit, with the proof they got, the edification they got. Not because God had decided that they would not be the Elect.

Saved people do not act as they did. If God wanted to save them they would not have acted that way. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

[footwasher]

Saved people do not act as they did. If God wanted to save them they would not have acted that way. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Does true righteousness lead to salvation, or does salvation lead to righteousness?

If salvation leads to righteousness, then the righteousness is a result of salvation which is the result of God's action so it is not the action of the person so is not true righteousness.