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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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God's Love and Allowing Evil

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  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    For many, true enough. For people faithful to Christ, the truths of scripture are verified by experience.



    I have enough experience to know that Calvinism is an empty philosophy.


    Thankfully, no.


    Two things provide a litmus test for whether people believe. People who are in the flesh can do neither.

    What about the tares? The ones Jesus will tell depart from me, I never knew you?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

      What about the tares? The ones Jesus will tell depart from me, I never knew you?
      Actually no, he doesn't - that is a different parable (sheep and goats). The goats sat back and did nothing. The parable of the talents (or minas, depending on author and story) tells the same story - those who worked were rewarded. The one who sat back and did nothing had the little that he did possess (in trust) taken from him.

      The tares are identifiable and identified. To avoid collateral damage, they are not removed before the appropriate time.
      Last edited by tabibito; 08-02-2021, 07:40 AM.
      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        Actually no, he doesn't - that is a different parable (sheep and goats). The goats sat back and did nothing. The parable of the talents (or minas, depending on author and story) tells the same story - those who worked were rewarded. The one who sat back and did nothing had the little that he did possess (in trust) taken from him.

        The tares are identifiable and identified. To avoid collateral damage, they are not removed before the appropriate time.
        The Tares thought they were saved. Come to find out, they weren't. Yet they believed but flesh faith cannot save.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dave l View Post

          the tares thought they were saved. Come to find out, they weren't. Yet they believed but flesh faith cannot save.
          rofl
          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            rofl
            How do you know you are not among the tares?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              How do you know you are not among the tares?
              Colossians 1:10-12
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Colossians 1:10-12
                Everyone thinks they are saved by works except the saved.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  Everyone thinks they are saved by works except the saved.
                  And of course, James. and Paul. and Jesus himself. and Peter.
                  2Peter 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
                  6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
                  7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
                  8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
                  9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
                  10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
                  11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
                  sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    And of course, James. and Paul. and Jesus himself. and Peter.
                    2Peter 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,
                    6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,
                    7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
                    8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
                    9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
                    10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
                    11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
                    I don't think we serve the same Christ. So let's drop this waste of time.

                    Comment

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