Free will?

[footwasher]

I'll bet you were incorrectly baptized according to Acts.....

When Paul saw the believers had more faith, he knew they had been baptised properly.

Acts 4:34There were no needy ones among them, because those who owned lands or houses would sell their property, bring the proceeds from the sales, 35and lay them at the apostles’ feet for distribution to anyone as he had need.

36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (meaning Son of Encouragement), 37sold a field he owned, brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

[Dave L]

When Paul saw the believers had more faith, he knew they had been baptised properly.

Acts 4:34There were no needy ones among them, because those who owned lands or houses would sell their property, bring the proceeds from the sales, 35and lay them at the apostles’ feet for distribution to anyone as he had need.

36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (meaning Son of Encouragement), 37sold a field he owned, brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

Describe how you were baptized using scriptural support.

[footwasher]

Describe how you were baptized using scriptural support.

Good, I'm glad you are engaging with the text. Baptism isn't something you do. It's God accepting your promise to trust Him, and His graciousness in giving you proof, revelation that will increase your trust. He did it when Abraham said he trusted God to help him in receiving the promise, by rescuing Abraham from King Abhimelech and Pharoah. He did it when the Israelites said they trusted God to help them receive what was promised to Abraham by rescuing from thirst and hunger:

1 Cor 10:1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.

In the same way, God rescued me from many dangers to my family and myself when I said I trusted Him to help in receiving the promise made to Abraham. That is how I was baptised.

[Dave L]

Good, I'm glad you are engaging with the text. Baptism isn't something you do. It's God accepting your promise to trust Him, and His graciousness in giving you proof, revelation that will increase your trust. He did it when Abraham said he trusted God to help him in receiving the promise, by rescuing Abraham from King Abhimelech and Pharoah. He did it when the Israelites said they trusted God to help them receive what was promised to Abraham by rescuing from thirst and hunger:

1 Cor 10:1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.

In the same way, God rescued me from many dangers to my family and myself when I said I trusted Him to help in receiving the promise made to Abraham. That is how I was baptised.

Nice footwork but it's not scriptural. In Acts, they baptized believers in the trinitarian name of Jesus Christ by immersion in water.

[footwasher]

Nice footwork but it's not scriptural. In Acts, they baptized believers in the trinitarian name of Jesus Christ by immersion in water.

Water baptism is a sacrament:

Quote
Many denominations, including the Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, and Reformed, hold to the definition of sacrament formulated by Augustine of Hippo: an outward sign of an inward grace, that has been instituted by Jesus Christ.^[2][3][4][5] Sacraments signify God's grace in a way that is outwardly observable to the participant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament

[Dave L]

Water baptism is a sacrament:

Quote
Many denominations, including the Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, and Reformed, hold to the definition of sacrament formulated by Augustine of Hippo: an outward sign of an inward grace, that has been instituted by Jesus Christ.^[2][3][4][5] Sacraments signify God's grace in a way that is outwardly observable to the participant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament

Not in scripture. It's when a person identifies with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. If you trust in a sacrament (falsely so-called) you trust in an idol.

[footwasher]

Not in scripture. It's when a person identifies with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. If you trust in a sacrament (falsely so-called) you trust in an idol.

There is a requirement to repent which you have not mentioned:

Acts 2:38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Whether my explanation or yours of baptism is a false image, an idol, or not can be proved by whether it results the right result. Explain what happened when you were baptised, and we will know whether you had the right baptism, as described by Scripture.

[Dave L]

There is a requirement to repent which you have not mentioned:

Acts 2:38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Whether my explanation or yours of baptism is a false image, an idol, or not can be proved by whether it results the right result. Explain what happened when you were baptised, and we will know whether you had the right baptism, as described by Scripture.

Only the saved believe enough to repent. Unbelievers would not.

[footwasher]

Only the saved believe enough to repent. Unbelievers would not.

Not in scripture. It's when a person identifies with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. If you trust in a sacrament (falsely so-called) you trust in an idol.

There is a requirement to repent which you have not mentioned:

Acts 2:38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Whether my explanation or yours of baptism is a false image, an idol, or not can be proved by whether it results the right result. Explain what happened when you were baptised, and we will know whether you had the right baptism, as described by Scripture.

Only the saved believe enough to repent. Unbelievers would not.

From the above, I can see you have not explained why no repentance is mentioned in your description of baptism, so your explanation is false.

The way of salvation is this:

1. God tells people their life is dark: selfish living to make existence comfortable, with returns that rust and perish.
2. People repent, change their mindset, agree with God, or continue to love the darkness, look for the easy, comfortable, broad path.
3. God promises He will lead people into a life that blesses the world, with rewards that do not perish, if they belief He can help them to enter Rest.
4. People agree to believe.
5. God gives the Holy Spirit so that it increases the belief of the people that He will help. This is called the faith increasing work of the Holy Spirit. He creates problems and then rescues.

Abraham had a problem with King Abhimelech and Pharoah, then God rescued him.

Israel had a problem with water and food and then God rescued them.

All these great works were done to show God could rescue. Now God wants to know if people really trust Him to rescue, because when He gives them the Kingdom, they have to pick up the cross every day, so that when they are rescued (which they will be if they are in the Kingdom), others will turn to Him.

To see if their faith has been built up by these great works, He gives them a test. For Abraham it was the command to give Isaac up. For Israel, it was to face the Amorite army.

God said these stories in the OT were recorded to teach people what was the right response and also what was a wrong response:

Romans 15:4For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

1 Cor 10:11For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Israel never learned from the revelations of the Holy Spirit:

1 Cor 10:1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Psalm 78:11They forgot what He had done, the wonders He had shown them.

Psalm 106:21They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt,

Abraham kept all the great works God did in his heart and it helped to increase his faith, trust in God, so that when he was tested, he responded correctly:

Hebrews 11:17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac on the altar. He who had received the promises was ready to offer his one and only son,c 18even though God had said to him, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”d 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and in a sense, he did receive Isaac back from death.

Repentance is meta-noia, change of mindset. Didn’t Abraham change fro trusting God only a little, when he lied Sarah was his sister, to trusting God fully? Didn’t Caleb have a change of mindset, from not trusting God, murmuring when there was no water, to fully trusting God when he was asked to fight the enemy and enter the Promised Land?

Numbers 14:20“I have pardoned them as you requested,” the LORD replied. 21“Yet as surely as I live and as surely as the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD, 22not one of the men who have seen My glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet have tested Me and disobeyed Me these ten times— 23not one will ever see the land that I swore to give their fathers. None of those who have treated Me with contempt will see it.

24But because My servant Caleb has a different spirit and has followed Me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he has entered, and his descendants will inherit it.

Confessing that God can always rescue leads to faith building revelations from the Holy Spirit. If you have never received faith building revelations from the Holy Spitrit, you have not been accepted by God. If your confession was correct God would have sent someone to seal you, baptise you. Baptizo is what someone does when he puts a pickle in vinegar, the vinegar goes into the pickle. Baptizo is also what the cloth makers did when they put cloth into a color dye: they baptizo-ed the cloth. The color would go into the cloth. Then the destroyer would not touch you, but PASS OVER you like it passed over the house of the Israelites whose houses were marked with the blood of the Passover lamb. This is what John did when he baptised the righteous Jews who showed fruit worthy of being signs of repentance. They escaped the wrath of God, like the disasters that fell on the Jews who were crushed by the falling tower of Siloam, and those who were slaughtered by Pilate, as sacrifices on the altar in the Temple.

Matthew 3:11As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
........


Acts 19:1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”

“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.

“The baptism of John,” they replied.

4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

[Dave L]

From the above, I can see you have not explained why no repentance is mentioned in your description of baptism, so your explanation is false.

The way of salvation is this:

1. God tells people their life is dark: selfish living to make existence comfortable, with returns that rust and perish.
2. People repent, change their mindset, agree with God, or continue to love the darkness, look for the easy, comfortable, broad path.
3. God promises He will lead people into a life that blesses the world, with rewards that do not perish, if they belief He can help them to enter Rest.
4. People agree to believe.
5. God gives the Holy Spirit so that it increases the belief of the people that He will help. This is called the faith increasing work of the Holy Spirit. He creates problems and then rescues.

Abraham had a problem with King Abhimelech and Pharoah, then God rescued him.

Israel had a problem with water and food and then God rescued them.

All these great works were done to show God could rescue. Now God wants to know if people really trust Him to rescue, because when He gives them the Kingdom, they have to pick up the cross every day, so that when they are rescued (which they will be if they are in the Kingdom), others will turn to Him.

To see if their faith has been built up by these great works, He gives them a test. For Abraham it was the command to give Isaac up. For Israel, it was to face the Amorite army.

God said these stories in the OT were recorded to teach people what was the right response and also what was a wrong response:

Romans 15:4For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

1 Cor 10:11For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Israel never learned from the revelations of the Holy Spirit:

1 Cor 10:1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Psalm 78:11They forgot what He had done, the wonders He had shown them.

Psalm 106:21They forgot God their Savior, who did great things in Egypt,

Abraham kept all the great works God did in his heart and it helped to increase his faith, trust in God, so that when he was tested, he responded correctly:

Hebrews 11:17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac on the altar. He who had received the promises was ready to offer his one and only son,c 18even though God had said to him, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”d 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and in a sense, he did receive Isaac back from death.

Repentance is meta-noia, change of mindset. Didn’t Abraham change fro trusting God only a little, when he lied Sarah was his sister, to trusting God fully? Didn’t Caleb have a change of mindset, from not trusting God, murmuring when there was no water, to fully trusting God when he was asked to fight the enemy and enter the Promised Land?

Numbers 14:20“I have pardoned them as you requested,” the LORD replied. 21“Yet as surely as I live and as surely as the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD, 22not one of the men who have seen My glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet have tested Me and disobeyed Me these ten times— 23not one will ever see the land that I swore to give their fathers. None of those who have treated Me with contempt will see it.

24But because My servant Caleb has a different spirit and has followed Me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he has entered, and his descendants will inherit it.

Confessing that God can always rescue leads to faith building revelations from the Holy Spirit. If you have never received faith building revelations from the Holy Spitrit, you have not been accepted by God. If your confession was correct God would have sent someone to seal you, baptise you. Baptizo is what someone does when he puts a pickle in vinegar, the vinegar goes into the pickle. Baptizo is also what the cloth makers did when they put cloth into a color dye: they baptizo-ed the cloth. The color would go into the cloth. Then the destroyer would not touch you, but PASS OVER you like it passed over the house of the Israelites whose houses were marked with the blood of the Passover lamb. This is what John did when he baptised the righteous Jews who showed fruit worthy of being signs of repentance. They escaped the wrath of God, like the disasters that fell on the Jews who were crushed by the falling tower of Siloam, and those who were slaughtered by Pilate, as sacrifices on the altar in the Temple.

Matthew 3:11As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
........


Acts 19:1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”

“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.

“The baptism of John,” they replied.

4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Prove you were really baptized according to scripture, instead of Church tradition.

Here's a checklist of requirements.

1. you were an adult believer.

2 You were baptized in the Name Of Jesus Christ.

3. You were baptized being fully immersed in water.

4. Your baptism identified you with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.

You understand the word baptized means to dip into a liquid.

[footwasher]

Prove you were really baptized according to scripture, instead of Church tradition.

Here's a checklist of requirements.

1. you were an adult believer.

2 You were baptized in the Name Of Jesus Christ.

3. You were baptized being fully immersed in water.

4. Your baptism identified you with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.

You understand the word baptized means to dip into a liquid.

When you believe that God can help you get into Rest, you are justified. Justification means God has declared that you have done the right thing, are righteous. When you are justified, you are given faith strengthening revelations from the Holy Spirit. All these happen even if there is nobody around to mark you with baptism as belonging to God, with water. In other words you have God's own mark, seal, are dyed with the Holy Spirit. No one was around to baptise him, but God still gave faith strengthening revelations to Abraham.

Why did God give us water baptism? Because we need to be reminded what has happened. It is an external sign of an internal gift. We are reminded of what we received and what we should do with the gift: not forget, but put it in our hearts, like Mary put it in her heart, so that when the test comes, we can pass it, obey God by giving up what is the most precious thing in our earthly lives, signifying we have turned away from selfishness, mammon, to serving God.

Luke 2:19But Mary treasured all these things, pondering them in her heart.

Just like communion is given to remind us we have received bread from heaven, to be used to build up our faith, strengthen our spiritual soul, not fill up our physical stomachs. We should not use these gifts to glorify ourselves, like Israel did, when she thought that being gifted meant she could face the Amalekites alone. They are meant to glorify God, so that when we open someone's eyes with a great work of healing, or great explanation of Scripture, God is glorified. That's why God prepared works beforehand for us to do, problems for us to solve. That's why Scripture is hard to explain, because God created problems, sickness and darkness, for us to heal. That's why we must pick up our crosses every day, so that when we are raised up, we will draw the whole world to God.

Remember, we should not use the healing to put the spotlight on ourselves, but to put it on God.


Isaiah 45:7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Ephesians 2:10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 9:3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him.

Matthew 4:7Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

Numbers 20:9So Moses took the rod from before the L

ORD

, just as He had commanded him;

10

and Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly before the rock. And he said to them, “Listen now, you rebels; shall we bring forth water for you out of this rock?”

11

Then Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came forth abundantly, and the congregation and their beasts drank.

12

But the L

ORD

said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”

13

Those

were

the waters of Meribah, because the sons of Israel contended with the L

ORD

, and He proved Himself holy among them.

....

Remember, when you are given the gifts, do not use them to put the spotlight on yourself, but use them to glorify God, so that they turn to God and are saved. No one is going to be saved by turning to you:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

In other words, don't be like Israel who constantly tested God, angering Him:

Numbers 14:39When Moses spoke these words to all the sons of Israel, the people mourned greatly.

40

In the morning, however, they rose up early and went up to the ridge of the hill country, saying, “Here we are; we have indeed sinned, but we will go up to the place which the L

ORD

has promised.”

41

But Moses said, “Why then are you transgressing the commandment of the L

ORD

, when it will not succeed?

42

“Do not go up, or you will be struck down before your enemies, for the L

ORD

is not among you.

43

“For the Amalekites and the Canaanites will be there in front of you, and you will fall by the sword, inasmuch as you have turned back from following the L

ORD

. And the L

ORD

will not be with you.”

44

But they went up heedlessly to the ridge of the hill country; neither the ark of the covenant of the L

ORD

nor Moses left the camp.

45

Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in that hill country came down, and struck them and beat them down as far as Hormah.

[Dave L]

When you believe that God can help you get into Rest, you are justified. Justification means God has declared that you have done the right thing, are righteous. When you are justified, you are given faith strengthening revelations from the Holy Spirit. All these happen even if there is nobody around to mark you with baptism as belonging to God, with water. In other words you have God's own mark, seal, are dyed with the Holy Spirit. No one was around to baptise him, but God still gave faith strengthening revelations to Abraham.

Why did God give us water baptism? Because we need to be reminded what has happened. It is an external sign of an internal gift. We are reminded of what we received and what we should do with the gift: not forget, but put it in our hearts, like Mary put it in her heart, so that when the test comes, we can pass it, obey God by giving up what is the most precious thing in our earthly lives, signifying we have turned away from selfishness, mammon, to serving God.

Luke 2:19But Mary treasured all these things, pondering them in her heart.

Just like communion is given to remind us we have received bread from heaven, to be used to build up our faith, strengthen our spiritual soul, not fill up our physical stomachs. We should not use these gifts to glorify ourselves, like Israel did, when she thought that being gifted meant she could face the Amalekites alone. They are meant to glorify God, so that when we open someone's eyes with a great work of healing, or great explanation of Scripture, God is glorified. That's why God prepared works beforehand for us to do, problems for us to solve. That's why Scripture is hard to explain, because God created problems, sickness and darkness, for us to heal. That's why we must pick up our crosses every day, so that when we are raised up, we will draw the whole world to God.

Remember, we should not use the healing to put the spotlight on ourselves, but to put it on God.


Isaiah 45:7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Ephesians 2:10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 9:3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him.

Matthew 4:7Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

Numbers 20:9So Moses took the rod from before the L

ORD

, just as He had commanded him;

10

and Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly before the rock. And he said to them, “Listen now, you rebels; shall we bring forth water for you out of this rock?”

11

Then Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came forth abundantly, and the congregation and their beasts drank.

12

But the L

ORD

said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”

13

Those

were

the waters of Meribah, because the sons of Israel contended with the L

ORD

, and He proved Himself holy among them.

....

Remember, when you are given the gifts, do not use them to put the spotlight on yourself, but use them to glorify God, so that they turn to God and are saved. No one is going to be saved by turning to you:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

In other words, don't be like Israel who constantly tested God, angering Him:

Numbers 14:39When Moses spoke these words to all the sons of Israel, the people mourned greatly.

40

In the morning, however, they rose up early and went up to the ridge of the hill country, saying, “Here we are; we have indeed sinned, but we will go up to the place which the L

ORD

has promised.”

41

But Moses said, “Why then are you transgressing the commandment of the L

ORD

, when it will not succeed?

42

“Do not go up, or you will be struck down before your enemies, for the L

ORD

is not among you.

43

“For the Amalekites and the Canaanites will be there in front of you, and you will fall by the sword, inasmuch as you have turned back from following the L

ORD

. And the L

ORD

will not be with you.”

44

But they went up heedlessly to the ridge of the hill country; neither the ark of the covenant of the L

ORD

nor Moses left the camp.

45

Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in that hill country came down, and struck them and beat them down as far as Hormah.

It's much simpler than what you are tangling yourself up in.

[footwasher]

It's much simpler than what you are tangling yourself up in.

N. T. Wright made a very interesting statement:

Quote
The Bell: What does a theologian do?

N.T. Wright: It’s a very good question. I’ve had people say to me, “Well, surely, the Bible has been around for 2,000 years. You mean we still don’t understand it?” And the answer is, well, no. Because we actually now know a lot more about the world of the Bible than we ever did before, which is really exciting—whether it’s the Dead Sea Scrolls or new archaeological discoveries.

And this is constantly shedding light afresh—not that our great predecessors in previous centuries were completely ignorant of what the Bible is saying, but again and again we can probe in.

We find that the way people asked questions in the 13^thcentury, 16^thcentury or 19^thcentury were so skewed by their particular cultural and philosophical setting—that the Bible forms a corrective. Of course, we too are in a particular philosophical, cultural setting. We aren’t neutral observers, but, at the same time, unless we’re constantly trying to do this, we’re just the victim of our own circumstances.

https://stories.gordon.edu/an-interv...wright-part-1/

......

In other words, new documents found in the Dead Sea caves show that theologians have missed out many things that the 1st Century Church were very familiar with. Do you know that Luther was wrong in thinking Paul was teaching against works righteousness? He was actually arguing with the Jews who said they were children of Abraham because of following Jewish traditions, works of the law: circumcision, washing hands and avoiding certain foods. Paul said Abraham's children were those who were loyal to God, were identified by faith, not by following traditions. Documents found in Qumran near the Dead Sea showed each Rabbi had a different set of traditions, works of the law, which they forced their disciples to follow! The Gospels were records of what people remembered Jesus and John said, and it confirmed they said the same thing:

John 8:31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38“I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40“But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41“You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
.......


Matthew 3:4Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan; 6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

[Dave L]

N. T. Wright made a very interesting statement:

Quote
The Bell: What does a theologian do?

N.T. Wright: It’s a very good question. I’ve had people say to me, “Well, surely, the Bible has been around for 2,000 years. You mean we still don’t understand it?” And the answer is, well, no. Because we actually now know a lot more about the world of the Bible than we ever did before, which is really exciting—whether it’s the Dead Sea Scrolls or new archaeological discoveries.

And this is constantly shedding light afresh—not that our great predecessors in previous centuries were completely ignorant of what the Bible is saying, but again and again we can probe in.

We find that the way people asked questions in the 13^thcentury, 16^thcentury or 19^thcentury were so skewed by their particular cultural and philosophical setting—that the Bible forms a corrective. Of course, we too are in a particular philosophical, cultural setting. We aren’t neutral observers, but, at the same time, unless we’re constantly trying to do this, we’re just the victim of our own circumstances.

https://stories.gordon.edu/an-interv...wright-part-1/

......

In other words, new documents found in the Dead Sea caves show that theologians have missed out many things that the 1st Century Church were very familiar with. Do you know that Luther was wrong in thinking Paul was teaching against works righteousness? He was actually arguing with the Jews who said they were children of Abraham because of following Jewish traditions, works of the law: circumcision, washing hands and avoiding certain foods. Paul said Abraham's children were those who were loyal to God, were identified by faith, not by following traditions. Documents found in Qumran near the Dead Sea showed each Rabbi had a different set of traditions, works of the law, which they forced their disciples to follow! The Gospels were records of what people remembered Jesus and John said, and it confirmed they said the same thing:

John 8:31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38“I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40“But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41“You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
.......


Matthew 3:4Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan; 6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.

7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8“Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; 9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. 10“The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

In all fairness to you, I do not read long posts. If you can state it simply I'm more convinced you know what you are talking about.

[footwasher]

In all fairness to you, I do not read long posts. If you can state it simply I'm more convinced you know what you are talking about.

I mean we have lost the information that the 1st century believers had, because we don't study Scripture by ourselves, but just depend on spoonfeeding by pastors.