Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Free will?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    But unless born again, you choose only sin.
    Wrong. Paul said he chose to not sin.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

      Wrong. Paul said he chose to not sin.
      Paul was born-again on the road to Damascus. How stupid would he be if he chose to sin?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by thormas View Post

        To be clear there is a difference between predetermination and pre-destination and to accept the latter (properly understood) is to also safeguard free will.


        Predestination voids free will.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

          Predestination voids free will.
          Well it doesn't but let me ask what you means by predestination.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            Paul was born-again on the road to Damascus. How stupid would he be if he chose to sin?
            How many 'born-again' people have we heard of and then have also heard of their sin? Please, born again is not a once and done.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by thormas View Post

              Well it doesn't but let me ask what you means by predestination.
              God controls all, including what people or animals think, and do, in a way where any change of predetermined course is impossible.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by thormas View Post

                How many 'born-again' people have we heard of and then have also heard of their sin? Please, born again is not a once and done.
                “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NCPB)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  Paul was born-again on the road to Damascus. How stupid would he be if he chose to sin?
                  There is no difference between born again and not born again believers: both can choose, but both cannot be sinless. Free will means being able to choose. Sinlessness means being able to be sinless. Even non-believers can choose. But no one is able to follow through, not sin.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                    There is no difference between born again and not born again believers: both can choose, but both cannot be sinless. Free will means being able to choose. Sinlessness means being able to be sinless. Even non-believers can choose. But no one is able to follow through, not sin.
                    sinful natures cannot choose sinlessness. Born again people cannot habitually sin, they have new sinless natures.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      God controls all, including what people or animals think, and do, in a way where any change of predetermined course is impossible.
                      If that is the case then there is no sin, then Adam never sinned, then there is no original sin...........because sin assumes choice. If there is no choice, we are not blameworthy and we have no need of beings saved because we, literally, didn't do it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                        sinful natures cannot choose sinlessness. Born again people cannot habitually sin, they have new sinless natures.
                        Foot washer is correct on this.

                        Do you know history? Jimmy Carter, a born again Christian and President of the US, even confessed his own sin of 'lusting after women in his heart.'

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                          “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NCPB)
                          Simply because one is born-again, it does not mean they are 'born of God.'

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by thormas View Post

                            Simply because one is born-again, it does not mean they are 'born of God.'
                            Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (God).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by thormas View Post

                              Foot washer is correct on this.

                              Do you know history? Jimmy Carter, a born again Christian and President of the US, even confessed his own sin of 'lusting after women in his heart.'
                              That's a temptation, not sin. He didn't say he followed through on it. And obviously got rid of it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by thormas View Post

                                If that is the case then there is no sin, then Adam never sinned, then there is no original sin...........because sin assumes choice. If there is no choice, we are not blameworthy and we have no need of beings saved because we, literally, didn't do it.
                                People are sinful by nature whether they choose or not.

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X