Free will?

[thormas]

In other words, you don't know what the belief in Jesus means. Thanks. See how easy that was?

Oh, foot washer, in your immortal words: you just don't get it.

[footwasher]

Oh, foot washer, in your immortal words: you just don't get it.

Ditto. You just proved you don't know what the belief in Jesus means. You keep asking me to explain something, not for your sake, because you know it already, but for the sake of others. However, when asked to show you DO know it, you deflect, don't respond. By doing that, you now reveal that you feel insecure about showing your ignorance about the subject matter.

[thormas]

Ditto. You just proved you don't know what the belief in Jesus means. You keep asking me to explain something, not for your sake, because you know it already, but for the sake of others. However, when asked to show you DO know it, you deflect, don't respond. By doing that, you now reveal that you feel insecure about showing your ignorance about the subject matter.

Actually I chose not to answer it for all the reasons given but I did imply it:+}

You have made my point FW, I am not interested in explanations for my sake or yours, I have been and remain interested, in this particular thread, about 'how' the beliefs' of Christianity need to be adequately explained or presented to the wider Christian audience. I simply don't need an explanation nor do I need to pass your quiz since you have no real response to the need for explanation to the many. You seem to have a need to see whose 'knowledge' is bigger..........I have no such insecurity :+}

[footwasher]

Actually I chose not to answer it for all the reasons given but I did imply it:+}

You have made my point FW, I am not interested in explanations for my sake or yours, I have been and remain interested, in this particular thread, about 'how' the beliefs' of Christianity need to be adequately explained or presented to the wider Christian audience. I simply don't need an explanation nor do I need to pass your quiz since you have no real response to the need for explanation to the many. You seem to have a need to see whose 'knowledge' is bigger..........I have no such insecurity :+}

In trying to understand your problem of unwillingness to state your interpretation of justification and how people are qualified to receive it, I went through some of your previous posts. Apparently you have problems with English, seen in your inability to be coherent and to convey your views:

Quote
Agreed again: no one can turn, on their own, to selflessness. It seems radical but indeed no one can be 'human' without God, simply no one can attain the fullness of humanity without Love (i.e. God). The truest expression of humanity is when Love is incarnate in humanity: Divinity in humanity so humanity can 'become' divinity. it is interesting that the Word, in and through other humans, must call, judge and challenge us to respond and it is the Spirit or Love, also given through other humans, that gives us the courage to respond and be. It would seem that the eternal mode(s) of God is always incarnational - in and through the human. We are passive, as you say, but we are also the co-creator (active).

No idea, I have never reflected on that but a real shame for the ox.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...80#post1191880

[thormas]

In trying to understand your problem of unwillingness to state your interpretation of justification and how people are qualified to receive it, I went through some of your previous posts. Apparently you have problems with English, seen in your inability to be coherent and to convey your views:

Quote
Agreed again: no one can turn, on their own, to selflessness. It seems radical but indeed no one can be 'human' without God, simply no one can attain the fullness of humanity without Love (i.e. God). The truest expression of humanity is when Love is incarnate in humanity: Divinity in humanity so humanity can 'become' divinity. it is interesting that the Word, in and through other humans, must call, judge and challenge us to respond and it is the Spirit or Love, also given through other humans, that gives us the courage to respond and be. It would seem that the eternal mode(s) of God is always incarnational - in and through the human. We are passive, as you say, but we are also the co-creator (active).

No idea, I have never reflected on that but a real shame for the ox.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...80#post1191880

There's that living out of Christianity that we all were looking for.................

Hey, are you lurking again? I mean you said you lurked, is it back, did it ever go away?

And, I understand that you might not get my statement that you so lovingly quoted above, as I packed a great deal into it. Sadly rather than ask for clarification, you bluster and mock. What is even more sad is you don't even get humor: the ox.

[footwasher]

There's that living out of Christianity that we all were looking for.................

Hey, are you lurking again? I mean you said you lurked, is it back, did it ever go away?

And, I understand that you might not get my statement that you so lovingly quoted above, as I packed a great deal into it. Sadly rather than ask for clarification, you bluster and mock. What is even more sad is you don't even get humor: the ox.

Not really, I'm just wondering how you'll be able to manage, to receive or give with your poor communication skills. You really ought to brush up on them before you post. Maybe then you'll be able to articulate what belief in Jesus means. Right now you can just about manage with some cool one liners in the Civics Section. Seriously, no mocking intended.

[thormas]

Not really, I'm just wondering how you'll be able to manage, to receive or give with your poor communication skills. You really ought to brush up on them before you post. Maybe then you'll be able to articulate what belief in Jesus means. Right now you can just about manage with some cool one liners in the Civics Section. Seriously, no mocking intended.

Good lord, there you go again with the mocking. You are an example to us all.

washer, I will just consider the source and carry on.............


p.s. BTW, thanks for saying I'm cool............my day is made :+}

[footwasher]

Good lord, there you go again with the mocking. You are an example to us all.

washer, I will just consider the source and carry on.............


p.s. BTW, thanks for saying I'm cool............my day is made :+}

You are welcome.;)

[footwasher]

Well, why is that?


So sinners are self-centered, and not free, and thus they don't have free will. And only Jesus can set us free: "If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8)


But the Bible teaches both, that those who sin are slaves to sin, and also that they are indeed culpable, and in need of forgiveness.

Blessings,
Lee

Why are the Jews slaves?

They claim that they are the children of Abraham and have never been slaves.

Jesus reminds them that Abraham had two sons and one was a slave, Ishmael, son of Hagar. Hagar is compared to Sinai, the covenant with Moses, the slave, the agreement given to God's People. Now, the covenant with Jesus, the Son, has arrived, which is permanent, because the son, Isaac, is never driven away, unlike Ishmael (John 8:35).

Do they want to be the People of God according to Ishmael, sons, or the People of God according to Isaac, slaves.

And since those in Christ, the real kapporeth, hilasterion, are free from sin, by passing the test that they really have His words remain in them, because His blood can take away sin, unlike the blood of bulls and goats, those who remain in the Law, Sinai, are still not only slaves, but also sinners. They want the words of Torah, not of Christ.

So John 8:34 is really dealing with those who want to preserve Judaism, the words of Moses, the slave, Law, and not have Jesus's, the Son's words, Grace, because they want a righteousness of their own, want Judaism to be the destination for being free of sin, the kapporeth, the thing that cleanses.

John 8:31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”

34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

...

Hebrews 3:1Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. 3Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5“Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,” ^a bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

We are the New Humanity in Christ, the new People of God, the House built on Christ, the real kapporeth, the real Rest, entered by passing the test that Joshua passed, that the test of Israel failed at, both in the OT as well as the NT.

[lee_merrill]

So John 8:34 is really dealing with those who want to preserve Judaism, the words of Moses, the slave, Law, and not have Jesus's, the Son's words, Grace, because they want a righteousness of their own, want Judaism to be the destination for being free of sin, the kapporeth, the thing that cleanses.

Well, no, "everyone [Jew and Gentile] who sins is a slave to sin", so this is talking about slavery due to sinning, not due to religion or birth.

Blessings,
Lee

[footwasher]

Well, no, "everyone [Jew and Gentile] who sins is a slave to sin", so this is talking about slavery due to sinning, not due to religion or birth.

Blessings,
Lee

Please explain why the slave does not remain in the house permanently:

John 8:35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed

[thormas]

There is forgiveness because of the timeless presence of the Father for any and all sinners to turn back (metanoia) to him, to Life (Prodigal Son). When this is done, one is no longer enslaved to sin: one is a new man, a new woman.

We all know or have seen in action some who call themselves 'Christian' who, in spite of that naming, are slaves to sin. Just as we have all witnessed many who are not Christian (Jew, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, agnostic and others) who are 'free' in God.

As said, slavery is not due to religion or birth, it is due to sin, self-centeredness, i.e. the decision to not love (God), to not love neighbor.

[footwasher]

Well, no, "everyone [Jew and Gentile] who sins is a slave to sin", so this is talking about slavery due to sinning, not due to religion or birth.

Blessings,
Lee

Please explain why the slave does not remain in the house permanently:

John 8:35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed

[lee_merrill]

There is forgiveness because of the timeless presence of the Father for any and all sinners to turn back (metanoia) to him, to Life (Prodigal Son). When this is done, one is no longer enslaved to sin: one is a new man, a new woman.

Yes, though God grants repentance (Acts 11:18), this is not an act of free will.

[quote[We all know or have seen in action some who call themselves 'Christian' who, in spite of that naming, are slaves to sin. Just as we have all witnessed many who are not Christian (Jew, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, agnostic and others) who are 'free' in God.[/quote]
I don't think those who deny the Son have the Father (1 John 2:23), and it is the Son who sets people free (John 8:36), so we must be in Christ.

As said, slavery is not due to religion or birth, it is due to sin, self-centeredness, i.e. the decision to not love (God), to not love neighbor.

Well, slavery is a state as well, a state of sinfulness, from which we need deliverance. Self cannot cast out self, and we only can love God and our neighbor if, and because, he first loved us (1 John 4:19).

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

Please explain why the slave does not remain in the house permanently:

John 8:35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed

Because the slave does not belong to the household, but a son does.

Blessings,
Lee