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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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  • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Give Scripture to support your claims.
    The promise to Abraham involved the whole world. In the New Testament, Jesus is Israel and the promise involves believing gentiles throughout the world. How could Cannan hold the promises that exceed its capacity?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

      Did you know the whole world became the promised land when God removed unbelieving Jews and added believing Gentiles in their place? Did you ever consider the promises outrun little Caanan? Did you consider it is only a symbol of heaven? It says Abraham looked for a better country, namely heaven.
      Dave,

      Jesus, the disciples, the first Christian communities, Paul ...........were all good, faithful and practicing Jews. But beside them why would the God who is in covenant with Israel remove them? Again you simply read but understanding and wisdom is not to be found.

      BTW, Abraham looked for another country - not heaven, don't romanticize it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by thormas View Post

        Dave,

        Jesus, the disciples, the first Christian communities, Paul ...........were all good, faithful and practicing Jews. But beside them why would the God who is in covenant with Israel remove them? Again you simply read but understanding and wisdom is not to be found.

        BTW, Abraham looked for another country - not heaven, don't romanticize it.
        Paul taught all the promises are yes in Jesus. So they do not apply to those who hate and reject him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

          Paul taught all the promises are yes in Jesus. So they do not apply to those who hate and reject him.
          Merely because one has never heard of Jesus or having heard, don't understand, or even hearing, reject what they have heard does not mean that one is rejecting God or Jesus in himself. As mentioned, you giving quote after quote or simply giving the 'party' line reveals very little to many people - so who can blame them if upon hearing such stuff, they reject it. The fault my friend is in you rather than those who hear you.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by thormas View Post

            Merely because one has never heard of Jesus or having heard, don't understand, or even hearing, reject what they have heard does not mean that one is rejecting God or Jesus in himself. As mentioned, you giving quote after quote or simply giving the 'party' line reveals very little to many people - so who can blame them if upon hearing such stuff, they reject it. The fault my friend is in you rather than those who hear you.
            Have you read the Talmud? Or looked it up to see what they believe. You should do this before saying too much.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              The promise to Abraham involved the whole world. In the New Testament, Jesus is Israel and the promise involves believing gentiles throughout the world. How could Cannan hold the promises that exceed its capacity?
              Just provide Scripture for this claim, and explain how it supports your view.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                Just provide Scripture for this claim, and explain how it supports your view.
                Is Jesus God? If so he rules the world with a Rod of Iron from David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem. If you don't think he is God, I cannot prove anything to you.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  Is Jesus God? If so he rules the world with a Rod of Iron from David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem. If you don't think he is God, I cannot prove anything to you.
                  So you have no basis, foundation, for any views you have? You believe something out of thin air?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                    Just provide Scripture for this claim, and explain how it supports your view.
                    Are you familiar with God's promise to Abraham? I need to know where to begin.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      Are you familiar with God's promise to Abraham? I need to know where to begin.
                      Genesis 12:3
                      I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                        So you have no basis, foundation, for any views you have? You believe something out of thin air?
                        If you know Jesus is God, you know my reasoning adds up.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                          If you know Jesus is God, you know my reasoning adds up.
                          Your answer shows you aren't fully saved, just like Paul knew the believers in Acts 19 were not properly saved:

                          Acts 19:1It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

                          If you were properly baptised, you would receive the Holy Spirit and He would lead you into the full truth. You wouldn't need any man to explain to you, but God would directly reveal the explanation. However you need someone to explain to you what the proper baptism is.
                          Last edited by footwasher; 10-27-2020, 08:48 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                            Your answer shows you aren't fully saved, just like Paul knew the believers in Acts 19 were not properly saved:

                            Acts 19:1It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

                            If you were properly baptised, you would receive the Holy Spirit and He would lead you into the full truth. You wouldn't need any man to explain to you, but God would directly reveal the explanation. However you need someone to explain to you what the proper baptism is.
                            What makes you think you were baptized according to Acts?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                              What makes you think you were baptized according to Acts?
                              The fact that I drank from spiritual water and ate from spiritual bread, meant to increase my faith, required to pass the test, the test that showed I not only said I trust Christ, but demonstrated that trust, by obeying Him, when he said to give up everything and follow Him, unlike Israel:

                              1 Cor 10:1I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness.

                              Luke 14:33So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

                              Matt 6:33But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

                              So with your baptism, did you get revelations that edified you, increased your faith? If not, you should get the proper baptism, else you will hear the dreaded words, "I never knew you".
                              Last edited by footwasher; 10-28-2020, 12:44 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                                The fact that I drank from spiritual water and ate from spiritual bread, meant to increase my faith, required to pass the test, the test that showed I not only said I trust Christ, but demonstrated that trust, by obeying Him, when he said to give up everything and follow Him, unlike Israel:

                                1 Cor 10:1I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness.

                                Luke 14:33So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

                                Matt 6:33But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

                                So with your baptism, did you get revelations that edified you, increased your faith? If not, you should get the proper baptism, else you will hear the dreaded words, "I never knew you".
                                I'll bet you were incorrectly baptized according to Acts.....

                                Comment

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