Free will?

[Dave L]

Dave,

You really have to read some of the critical biblical scholars and some theologians - and think with your heart.

Forget what you have been reading for a second: do you really think the Father of Jesus would kill babies because of the sin of Adam? Would he be that pissed off for that long?

I can have an extended discussion on 'original sin' but it is not what you seem to believe and I fear it would all be for naught.
.

Total depravity (original sin) kills free will. All are slaves to Satan unless God saves them so they can believe in the true God.

[thormas]

If you cannot control your tongue according to James, how can you have free will?

Asked and answered :+}

[Dave L]

Asked and answered :+}

Can you choose to control your tongue when James says you cannot?

[thormas]

“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (NCPB)

Unless God does this to a person, they cannot discern God enough to choose him.

Try telling this to a teenage boy and all he'll hear is circumcise,,,,,,,,,,,,and follow up with God will circumcise .........what?????

Come on Dave........I did say explain. Try everyday language.


Explain how God does this to a person, make it come alive for them. And explain how one loves God, how exactly does a kid do that?

[thormas]

Can you choose to control your tongue when James says you cannot?

same answer

[Dave L]

Try telling this to a teenage boy and all he'll hear is circumcise,,,,,,,,,,,,and follow up with God will circumcise .........what?????

Come on Dave........I did say explain. Try everyday language.


Explain how God does this to a person, make it come alive for them. And explain how one loves God, how exactly does a kid do that?

We all are born idol worshippers and God-haters. But God chose to give a new heart to some turning them into people that love him and love righteousness. Today we call them believers in Christ.

[thormas]

Total depravity (original sin) kills free will. All are slaves to Satan unless God saves them so they can believe in the true God.

Explain to a 21st C teenager or even an adult what you mean by original sin, how it kills free will, how we can be slaves and what do you envision by Satan and how God saves them.

I know you can given me quotes but explain. Don;t just say or instance 'by the blood of Christ" explain what that can possibly mean. Not to me..........I got it but to others.

[thormas]

We all are born idol worshippers and God-haters. But God chose to give a new heart to some turning them into people that love him and love righteousness. Today we call them believers in Christ.

Okay start there, in today's world what idols do we worship and how can you possibly call it God hating?

[Dave L]

Try telling this to a teenage boy and all he'll hear is circumcise,,,,,,,,,,,,and follow up with God will circumcise .........what?????

Come on Dave........I did say explain. Try everyday language.


Explain how God does this to a person, make it come alive for them. And explain how one loves God, how exactly does a kid do that?

I'm using elementary Christian and bible terms. When God saved me I was not seeking him. But I lit up with the fruit of the Spirit one day and have been a believer ever since.

[Dave L]

Explain to a 21st C teenager or even an adult what you mean by original sin, how it kills free will, how we can be slaves and what do you envision by Satan and how God saves them.

I know you can given me quotes but explain. Don;t just say or instance 'by the blood of Christ" explain what that can possibly mean. Not to me..........I got it but to others.

Tell the teenager to give all his belongings to his enemies and treat them as he would be treated. Anything less is sin and a ticket to hell.

[Dave L]

Okay start there, in today's world what idols do we worship and how can you possibly call it God hating?

Money is a huge idol people trust in.

[thormas]

I'm using elementary Christian and bible terms. When God saved me I was not seeking him. But I lit up with the fruit of the Spirit one day and have been a believer ever since.

You are using age old biblical and Christian terms but you have no real ability to translate these terms so people today can get it.


Can't you imagine someone saying, God saved you? How, exactly? And what is this stuff about fruit if the Spirit, I thought the Spirit was a dove, and how does that make you a believer? Do you eat the fruit?

We can go on and on Dave but you are in the same place.

[Dave L]

You are using age old biblical and Christian terms but you have no real ability to translate these terms so people today can get it.


Can't you imagine someone saying, God saved you? How, exactly? And what is this stuff about fruit if the Spirit, I thought the Spirit was a dove, and how does that make you a believer? Do you eat the fruit?

We can go on and on Dave but you are in the same place.

Truth needs certain words to convey it.

[thormas]

Truth needs certain words to convey it.

Right and you haven't discovered those words yet: translate for today's audience.

[Dave L]

Right and you haven't discovered those words yet: translate for today's audience.

Any Christian knows what I'm talking about. The rest either ignore or trample my words underfoot.