Free will?

[Dave L]

All hat and no cattle, bless your heart :+}

If you cannot live free from all sin, you don't have free will.

[thormas]

If you cannot live free from all sin, you don't have free will.

You're an undergrad and I appreciate that. Make sure you take some classes with true 'critical scholars' in biblical, and early Christian, studies and theology...........then let us resume the conversation.

BTW, you reversed it: if you use your free will to decide 'for' God (and therefore against selfishness or sin).............you are 'freeing yourself from sin' and, therefore, free to become truly human, a child of God. And, of course, the use of free will to decide for God is, properly understood, accomplished in a way that both 'protects' our free will and is a response to God ......to be as 'I AM.' God's outreach to man comes first and calls for man's response to God.

[Dave L]

You're an undergrad and I appreciate that. Make sure you take some classes with true 'critical scholars' in biblical, and early Christian, studies and theology...........then let us resume the conversation.

BTW, you reversed it: if you use your free will to decide 'for' God (and therefore against selfishness or sin).............you are 'freeing yourself from sin' and, therefore, free to become truly human, a child of God. And, of course, the use of free will to decide for God is, properly understood, accomplished in a way that both 'protects' our free will and is a response to God ......to be as 'I AM.' God's outreach to man comes first and calls for man's response to God.

God blinded the Pharisees so they could not believe. How free were their wills?

[thormas]

God blinded the Pharisees so they could not believe. How free were their wills?

Statements......... without understanding: you must realize that if God blinded the Pharisees, then they didn't have free will and were not blameworthy for their sins.


Read into the scriptures, seek out experts or at least knowledgeable people: God doesn't take anybody's free will.

Have some idea what you're talking about and the consequences of your statements ......... before you turn more people off to the scriptures and to Christianity.

[Dave L]

Statements......... without understanding: you must realize that if God blinded the Pharisees, then they didn't have free will and were not blameworthy for their sins.


Read into the scriptures, seek out experts or at least knowledgeable people: God doesn't take anybody's free will.

Have some idea what you're talking about and the consequences of your statements ......... before you turn more people off to the scriptures and to Christianity.

But we are born just as blind. “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (NCPB)

[Dave L]

Statements......... without understanding: you must realize that if God blinded the Pharisees, then they didn't have free will and were not blameworthy for their sins.


Read into the scriptures, seek out experts or at least knowledgeable people: God doesn't take anybody's free will.

Have some idea what you're talking about and the consequences of your statements ......... before you turn more people off to the scriptures and to Christianity.

Why do babies die if their sins inherited in Adam don't count?

[thormas]

Why do babies die if their sins inherited in Adam don't count?

Is this a serious question?

Babies, like the rest of us, die because we are mortal and fragile creatures.........and stuff can happen, sometimes bad, tragic stuff, to human being at any age.

[Dave L]

Is this a serious question?

Babies, like the rest of us, die because we are mortal and fragile creatures.........and stuff can happen, sometimes bad, tragic stuff, to human being at any age.

The wages of sin is death.

[Dave L]

You're an undergrad and I appreciate that. Make sure you take some classes with true 'critical scholars' in biblical, and early Christian, studies and theology...........then let us resume the conversation.

BTW, you reversed it: if you use your free will to decide 'for' God (and therefore against selfishness or sin).............you are 'freeing yourself from sin' and, therefore, free to become truly human, a child of God. And, of course, the use of free will to decide for God is, properly understood, accomplished in a way that both 'protects' our free will and is a response to God ......to be as 'I AM.' God's outreach to man comes first and calls for man's response to God.

The problem? Nobody can discern God unless he reveals himself through the new birth. “Then he asked them, “But who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.” Matthew 16:15–17 (NLT)

[Dave L]

Does James disprove free will? “For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us, and we turn about their whole body. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things: behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue amongst our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: but the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.” James 3:2–8 (NCPB)

[thormas]

The wages of sin is death.

Dave,

You really have to read some of the critical biblical scholars and some theologians - and think with your heart.

Forget what you have been reading for a second: do you really think the Father of Jesus would kill babies because of the sin of Adam? Would he be that pissed off for that long?

I can have an extended discussion on 'original sin' but it is not what you seem to believe and I fear it would all be for naught.
.

[thormas]

The problem? Nobody can discern God unless he reveals himself through the new birth. “Then he asked them, “But who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.” Matthew 16:15–17 (NLT)

So Dave, now let's see if you are capable of explaining what you just wrote. Explain if for a person who has no idea what you're talking about , a person you have to reach.

Then we'll talk.

Read,Dave, Read.

[thormas]

Does James disprove free will? “For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us, and we turn about their whole body. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things: behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue amongst our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: but the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.” James 3:2–8 (NCPB)

The simple answer is no: there is free will. James disproves nothing.

[Dave L]

The simple answer is no: there is free will. James disproves nothing.

If you cannot control your tongue according to James, how can you have free will?

[Dave L]

So Dave, now let's see if you are capable of explaining what you just wrote. Explain if for a person who has no idea what you're talking about , a person you have to reach.

Then we'll talk.

Read,Dave, Read.

“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (NCPB)

Unless God does this to a person, they cannot discern God enough to choose him.