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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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  • lee_merrill
    replied
    Originally posted by Hornet View Post
    Faith is the instrument of receiving justification and repentance accompanies it.
    Agreed, and faith and repentance are acts of obedience, I would insist...

    Blessings,
    Lee

    Leave a comment:


  • Hornet
    replied
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, repentance and faith, right? (Mark 1:15) And repentance and faith is our first act of obedience.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Faith is the instrument of receiving justification and repentance accompanies it.

    Leave a comment:


  • lee_merrill
    replied
    Originally posted by Hornet View Post
    Faith in Christ is what receives eternal life. There are other commandments of God that people are supposed to obey, but faith in Christ is what receives eternal life.
    Well, repentance and faith, right? (Mark 1:15) And repentance and faith is our first act of obedience.

    Blessings,
    Lee

    Leave a comment:


  • Hornet
    replied
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Yes and no, repentance is calling people to obedience, thus Paul can speak of those who "obey the gospel" (2 Th. 1:8).

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Faith in Christ is what receives eternal life. There are other commandments of God that people are supposed to obey, but faith in Christ is what receives eternal life.

    Leave a comment:


  • lee_merrill
    replied
    Originally posted by Hornet View Post
    Obeying God is a characteristic of a Christian, but the Christian's obedience is not what actually saves him or her. When God saves a person, God changes that person so that he or she will obey God, but that changed life is not the basis upon which God declares that person righteous.
    Yes and no, repentance is calling people to obedience, thus Paul can speak of those who "obey the gospel" (2 Th. 1:8).

    Blessings,
    Lee

    Leave a comment:


  • demi-conservative
    replied
    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
    Submitting to God's authority is works.
    I have never understood the autistic interpretation of 'works'. It seems to equate 'works' with any act, so that repenting itself is a work.

    Leave a comment:


  • demi-conservative
    replied
    Originally posted by Hornet View Post
    Does that mean that "Jesus is God" or "I'm going to obey Jesus"?
    The latter, though Paul's view that Jesus is YHWH is also clear from the text.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hornet
    replied
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Yet we read in Hebrews: "And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation..." (Heb. 5:9)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Obeying God is a characteristic of a Christian, but the Christian's obedience is not what actually saves him or her. When God saves a person, God changes that person so that he or she will obey God, but that changed life is not the basis upon which God declares that person righteous.

    Leave a comment:


  • lee_merrill
    replied
    Originally posted by Hornet View Post
    One can believe that Jesus is God and that people are morally obligated to obey God, but that does not mean that a right standing before God is received by obeying God. We are supposed to obey God, but obedience is not the means by which eternal life is received.
    Yet we read in Hebrews: "And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation..." (Heb. 5:9)

    Blessings,
    Lee

    Leave a comment:


  • lee_merrill
    replied
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    This is mixing contexts. In the context of Rom. 10, confessing Him as "Lord" is linked to "calling on the name of the Lord" to be saved, an allusion to Joel 2:32, where LORD translates YHWH.
    I think saying Rom. 10 means "Jesus is YHWH" is far-fetched! And even in the context of Rom. 10, Lord is clearly meaning "Lord":

    "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for 'WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' " (Ro 10:12–13)

    Blessings,
    Lee

    Leave a comment:


  • Hornet
    replied
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    "Jesus is Lord" is the text, I believe this is a confession of obedience.

    "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" (Lk 6:46)

    So calling Jesus Lord implies obedience...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    One can believe that Jesus is God and that people are morally obligated to obey God, but that does not mean that a right standing before God is received by obeying God. We are supposed to obey God, but obedience is not the means by which eternal life is received.

    Leave a comment:


  • alaskazimm
    replied
    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
    If you don't think it's possible to disobey a lord, you have obviously never visited a jail.
    Yes, that's true - but if they are knowingly disobeying then the probably aren't calling him their lord.

    Leave a comment:


  • Obsidian
    replied
    Originally posted by AlaskaZimm
    Of course anyone can say anything but actions show what is in the heart. Jesus was saying they said the words but didn't do what he says, thus indicating that he wasn't really their lord.
    If you don't think it's possible to disobey a lord, you have obviously never visited a jail.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorrinRadd
    replied
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    "Jesus is Lord" is the text, I believe this is a confession of obedience.

    "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" (Lk 6:46)

    So calling Jesus Lord implies obedience...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    This is mixing contexts. In the context of Rom. 10, confessing Him as "Lord" is linked to "calling on the name of the Lord" to be saved, an allusion to Joel 2:32, where LORD translates YHWH.

    Leave a comment:


  • alaskazimm
    replied
    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
    Unbelievable. The very verse you quoted says that it is possible to call him lord and not do what he says.
    Of course anyone can say anything but actions show what is in the heart. Jesus was saying they said the words but didn't do what he says, thus indicating that he wasn't really their lord.

    Leave a comment:

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