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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Podcast about Lordship Salvation

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  • Podcast about Lordship Salvation

    There is a podcast called "Theology Gals" and the hosts had an episode about Lordship Salvation. They say that Lordship Salvation as John MacArthur defines teaches that repentance and submitting to Christ's authority is a part of faith. The opposing point of view is Free Grace theology, which teaches that sanctification does not necessarily follow from justification. Zane Hodges is an example of the extreme version of it and Charles Ryrie is an example of the softer version of it.

    http://theologygals.com/2019/05/lord...y-episode-112/

  • #2
    Well, sanctification is not defined as whether you take Jesus as Lord! Now submission is a process, but taking Jesus as Lord is part of the start of salvation, I believe.

    "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Ro 10:9 NIV)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
      Well, sanctification is not defined as whether you take Jesus as Lord! Now submission is a process, but taking Jesus as Lord is part of the start of salvation, I believe.

      "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Ro 10:9 NIV)

      Blessings,
      Lee
      Does that mean that "Jesus is God" or "I'm going to obey Jesus"? The Lordship Salvation is not a dispute of whether or not a person needs to admit that Jesus is God at conversion. It is a dispute of whether or not a person has to submit to God's authority or make a promise to obey God at conversion.

      Comment


      • #4
        Submitting to God's authority is works. Making a promise to submit to God's authority is just making a promise to do works.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hornet View Post
          Does that mean that "Jesus is God" or "I'm going to obey Jesus"?
          "Jesus is Lord" is the text, I believe this is a confession of obedience.

          "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" (Lk 6:46)

          So calling Jesus Lord implies obedience...

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #6
            Unbelievable. The very verse you quoted says that it is possible to call him lord and not do what he says.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
              Unbelievable. The very verse you quoted says that it is possible to call him lord and not do what he says.
              Of course anyone can say anything but actions show what is in the heart. Jesus was saying they said the words but didn't do what he says, thus indicating that he wasn't really their lord.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                "Jesus is Lord" is the text, I believe this is a confession of obedience.

                "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" (Lk 6:46)

                So calling Jesus Lord implies obedience...

                Blessings,
                Lee
                This is mixing contexts. In the context of Rom. 10, confessing Him as "Lord" is linked to "calling on the name of the Lord" to be saved, an allusion to Joel 2:32, where LORD translates YHWH.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Nationalist.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AlaskaZimm
                  Of course anyone can say anything but actions show what is in the heart. Jesus was saying they said the words but didn't do what he says, thus indicating that he wasn't really their lord.
                  If you don't think it's possible to disobey a lord, you have obviously never visited a jail.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                    If you don't think it's possible to disobey a lord, you have obviously never visited a jail.
                    Yes, that's true - but if they are knowingly disobeying then the probably aren't calling him their lord.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      "Jesus is Lord" is the text, I believe this is a confession of obedience.

                      "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" (Lk 6:46)

                      So calling Jesus Lord implies obedience...

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      One can believe that Jesus is God and that people are morally obligated to obey God, but that does not mean that a right standing before God is received by obeying God. We are supposed to obey God, but obedience is not the means by which eternal life is received.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                        This is mixing contexts. In the context of Rom. 10, confessing Him as "Lord" is linked to "calling on the name of the Lord" to be saved, an allusion to Joel 2:32, where LORD translates YHWH.
                        I think saying Rom. 10 means "Jesus is YHWH" is far-fetched! And even in the context of Rom. 10, Lord is clearly meaning "Lord":

                        "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for 'WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' " (Ro 10:12–13)

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hornet View Post
                          One can believe that Jesus is God and that people are morally obligated to obey God, but that does not mean that a right standing before God is received by obeying God. We are supposed to obey God, but obedience is not the means by which eternal life is received.
                          Yet we read in Hebrews: "And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation..." (Heb. 5:9)

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            Yet we read in Hebrews: "And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation..." (Heb. 5:9)

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            Obeying God is a characteristic of a Christian, but the Christian's obedience is not what actually saves him or her. When God saves a person, God changes that person so that he or she will obey God, but that changed life is not the basis upon which God declares that person righteous.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hornet View Post
                              Does that mean that "Jesus is God" or "I'm going to obey Jesus"?
                              The latter, though Paul's view that Jesus is YHWH is also clear from the text.
                              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                              Comment

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