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Turning from sin and conversion

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  • #16
    I'm dealing with a Muslim who thinks that if one repents there was no need for Jesus to die as Christians claim.

    How would you answer this one?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
      I'm dealing with a Muslim who thinks that if one repents there was no need for Jesus to die as Christians claim.

      How would you answer this one?
      His sacrifice is the means by which we are saved. He took the punishment we were due in order for us to be saved. Just repenting doesn't change that we sinned. Someone being sorry they murdered someone and saying they won't do it again doesn't change the fact that that person is still a murderer, does it?

      This is the judge coming down from the bench and taking the sentence we should have gotten in our place.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        His sacrifice is the means by which we are saved. He took the punishment we were due in order for us to be saved. Just repenting doesn't change that we sinned. Someone being sorry they murdered someone and saying they won't do it again doesn't change the fact that that person is still a murderer, does it?

        This is the judge coming down from the bench and taking the sentence we should have gotten in our place.
        Where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
          Where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins?
          You ask some pretty strange questions for a Christian. You might want to start with John 3, John 10 and then move onto Romans 3-6 for an outline of the gospel. I am not going to spoon feed you stuff you should already know.

          Comment


          • #20
            Acts 20:28 - God secured the church with his own blood ... Hebrews 9:12 - The messiah secured our redemption with his own blood ... Hebrews 13:12 Jesus sanctified the people with his own blood
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              You ask some pretty strange questions for a Christian. You might want to start with John 3, John 10 and then move onto Romans 3-6 for an outline of the gospel. I am not going to spoon feed you stuff you should already know.
              I know the answers so I don't ask strange questions. I'm trying to counter a Muslim argument.

              My answer to where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins is:

              Matthew 20:28

              just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                I know the answers so I don't ask strange questions. I'm trying to counter a Muslim argument.

                My answer to where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins is:

                Matthew 20:28

                just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
                Then why were you asking ME?


                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                  Where did Jesus say He died for mankind's sins?
                  Yupp ... and I'm guessing that you are asking twenty questions to see whether you're smarter than the rest of us.

                  However, that verse says there that he came to give his life as a ransom ... so it doesn't show that Jesus died for sins, only that he gave his life for many (and technically would not even necessarily involve death - there are many ways to give one's life).

                  Romans 5:6,8; Rom 8:34 ... the list of passages showing that Jesus died for our benefit, and even because of sin is extensive. Where did Jesus say that he died for our sins? To the best of my knowledge he never made that EXPLICIT statement.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Then why were you asking ME?

                    To see if my answer matches yours -- to get confirmation from another Christian.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                      To see if my answer matches yours -- to get confirmation from another Christian.
                      right.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                        Yupp ... and I'm guessing that you are asking twenty questions to see whether you're smarter than the rest of us.
                        You guessed wrong. I just wanted confirmation from other Christians.

                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                        However, that verse says there that he came to give his life as a ransom ... so it doesn't show that Jesus died for sins, only that he gave his life for many (and technically would not even necessarily involve death - there are many ways to give one's life).
                        Strong's Concordance
                        lutron: a ransom
                        Original Word: λύτρον, ου, τό
                        Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
                        Transliteration: lutron
                        Phonetic Spelling: (loo'-tron)
                        Definition: a ransom
                        Usage: the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation.
                        HELPS Word-studies

                        Cognate: 3083 lýtron (a neuter noun) – literally, the ransom-money (price) to free a slave. 3083 (lýtron) is used in the NT of the ultimate "liberty-price" – the blood of Christ which purchases (ransoms) believers, freeing them from all slavery (bondage) to sin. 3083 (lýtron) occurs twice in the NT (Mt 10:28; Mk 10:45), both times referring to this purchase (ransom-price) which Christ paid. (See 3084) (lytroō).

                        Romans 5:6,8; Rom 8:34 ... the list of passages showing that Jesus died for our benefit, and even because of sin is extensive. Where did Jesus say that he died for our sins? To the best of my knowledge he never made that EXPLICIT statement.[/QUOTE]

                        I only want Jesus' words.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          I nearly agree with you, but cannot agree with your assertion that repentance and faith are the gift of God. Your idea of salvation is necessarily restricted to those to whom God deigns to grant it; if solely bestowed by God, faith and repentance are logically merely window dressing. Preaching is utterly pointless if we are powerless to respond to it.
                          But preaching the word brings the power of God to grant repentance and faith, is my view. And repentance is a life-long virtue, said Spurgeon, as is faith ("I have kept the faith", said Paul). So there is room enough for our willing response.

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                            You guessed wrong. I just wanted confirmation from other Christians.



                            Strong's Concordance
                            lutron: a ransom
                            Original Word: λύτρον, ου, τό
                            Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
                            Transliteration: lutron
                            Phonetic Spelling: (loo'-tron)
                            Definition: a ransom
                            Usage: the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation.
                            HELPS Word-studies

                            Cognate: 3083 lýtron (a neuter noun) – literally, the ransom-money (price) to free a slave. 3083 (lýtron) is used in the NT of the ultimate "liberty-price" – the blood of Christ which purchases (ransoms) believers, freeing them from all slavery (bondage) to sin. 3083 (lýtron) occurs twice in the NT (Mt 10:28; Mk 10:45), both times referring to this purchase (ransom-price) which Christ paid. (See 3084) (lytroō).


                            I only want Jesus' words.
                            Quite so. λυτρον means ransom - and sin isn't mentioned. Your question I believe was, where does Jesus say he was to die for mankind's sins?
                            I cannot think of anywhere that he makes the explicit statement that he is to do for mankind's sins. Ransom for many doesn't say he will give his life for sins. And give his life doesn't mean (necessarily) die.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 04-15-2019, 02:04 PM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                              What exactly is the good news Jesus preached?
                              The good news of the kingdom of God (Luke 16:16). God reigns, and we may join in his kingdom as his subjects.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                No, turning from sin is not an essential part of conversion. But it is strongly encouraged.

                                Hebrews 12:7-8
                                If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

                                Comment

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