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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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His Elect !

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  • Election eliminates man's boasting !


    Eph 2:8-9

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Even though scripture teaches that in regards to Salvation, being Saved, man has no reason to boast, yet false teachers tell us that faith, mans act of believing, is an condition man must perform to get saved, which does nothing but bring up a reason for man to boast. A person can say to another who is not saved, the reason why you not saved and i am is because I performed Faith or believed and you didn't, folks that is boasting !

    But Paul worte 1 Cor 1:28-29

    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
    6
    Boastful and prideful man believes that their act of believing is what caused them to get into Christ Jesus, and Paul knows the deceitful heart, So Paul tells us how any come to be in Christ Jesus, Vs 30

    30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

    31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

    In other words, the only reason why one is in Christ Jesus, is solely because of their unconditional Election, God's Sovereign choice of them !

    "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

    Glory in God's Election !

    Comment


    • One Chosen or Elect People !


      What makes the Chosen or Elect of God in Deut 7:6-7 and different of a group than God's Chosen or Elect People in Eph 1:4 ?

      Deut 7:6-7

      6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

      7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

      Eph 1:4

      4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

      There is no difference except for dispensation or time, lets begin the comparison that shows they are the same. First both are said to be God's Chosen or Elect Cp Deut 7:6 with Eph 1:4, next both are Loved Deut 7:7; Eph 1:4

      7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

      4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

      Next, both are Holy before Him Deut 7:6

      6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

      Eph 1:4

      4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

      Both are a special people unto the Lord Deut 7:6

      For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

      That word special means:

      I.possession, property
      A.
      valued property, peculiar treasure

      B.
      treasure

      Eph 1:18 says of the chosen in Eph 1:4

      18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

      That word inheritance means :
      I.
      an inheritance, property received (or to be received) by inheritance

      II.
      what is given to one as a possession

      Also Titus 2:14

      14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

      That word peculiar means:

      I.that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
      A.
      a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession


      Does not that agree with Deut 7:6

      6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

      Ok The word special in Deut 7:6 actually means possession, property, treasure !

      The word inheritance in Eph 1:18 means proprty, possession !

      These comparisons have been brought to light to show that the Chosen are the same in both places, both refer to the Chosen in Christ, Israel, the Church, Just under different dispensations, The Old Deut 7 and the New in Eph 1, under the old the chosen was made up of mostly jews, under the New mostly Gentiles Rom 11:25-26

      25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

      26 And so all Israel shall be saved:
      as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 6

      Comment


      • Chosen in Christ the Chosen one !


        1 Pet 2:4,6 ; Isa 42:1

        4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

        6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

        Isa 42:1

        Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

        Many of the most staunches enemies of our Election in Christ , attempt to deny the Glorious Truth by stating that only Christ is God's Elect, and by that they deny individual election of persons ! Yet they are ignorantly correct when they say that only Christ is God's Elect, but with that what they wilfully fail to understand, is that Christ's Election is also His Seed's Election in Him. Paul once wrote here Gal 3:16

        16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

        Christ clearly here is being Identified as Abraham's One Seed, yet later on in Vs 29 many individuals that belong to Christ this One Seed, are also identified as Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

        29 And if ye [As an Individual] be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

        Do you see that ? In Vs 16 Christ alone is called Abraham's Seed,Just one ! Then in Vs 29 many inviduals who belong to Christ are also Called Abrham's Seed !

        What this does is establish a Election Union with Christ and those who belong to Him by Election in Him Eph 1:3-4

        3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

        4 According as he hath chosen us in him[Christ Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

        So understand, what the deceived and foolish opposers of individual Election dont understand, is that Christ's Election 1 Pet 2:4,6 ; Isa 42:1 is also the Election of His Seed Chosen / Generation in Him !

        Comment


        • Chosen in Christ the Chosen one ! 2


          Understand, The Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim 2:5 the Last Adam 1 Cor 15:45

          And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

          His Election is also the Election of His Seed or Generation in Him, just as His Types Adam the first man as his Seed or generation had a election existence in him ! It was written of the first Adam this Gen 5:1-2

          This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

          2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

          3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

          Seth with the rest of the individuals following in the chapter are all individuals that had a elective physical being as Adam's Seed or Generation, and who because of it, would be manifested by physical birth in God's Time and Purpose Ecc 3:1-2

          To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

          2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

          Seth was born to Adam, to carry on his image and likeness when God purposed it !

          Well Believers are but the Chosen Generation of Christ coming into manifestion after their birth 1 Pet 2:9

          9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

          Speaking to and only of believers, Peter refers to them as a Chosen Generation, this goes back to their having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, and hence they were His Generation or Seed, for a Seed and a Generation are the exact same, Ps 22:30-31

          30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

          31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

          Comment


          • Chosen in Christ the Chosen one ! 3


            Now just as the first adam had a generation/seed in him, that must be begotten in his image and likeness Gen 5:1-3

            This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Note: God Created Adam with his generations in him !

            2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

            3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

            So likewise, the Last Adam, The Man Christ Jesus, those of His generations must He beget in His Image and Likeness ! Thats why He is also called the firstborn of many brethren, those who shall be conformed to His Image Rom 8:29

            29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

            These are also His Seed Isa 53:10

            10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed or generation, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

            Now lets observe something here, believers, before becoming believers and before being born, they are a Chosen Generation / Seed according to 1 Pet 2:9

            9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

            Also they had been said to be born of incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

            23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

            Proving that they were the Generation of Christ, the logos of God, and therefore Chosen in Him whom Himself was the Chosen of God 1 Pet 2:4,6

            4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

            6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 6

            Comment


            • Chosen in Christ the Chosen one ! 4


              Now all of this is being brought forth to show and prove that Christ's Election is the same as the Election of His Seed, just as Abraham's Election is the Election of His Seed Ps 105:6; Isa 41:8, which of course is comprised of individual members. Now to make this truth even the more obvious, we will look at David as a Type of Christ, and how that God made a Covenant with him as His Chosen, which denote certain promises to David's Seed Ps 89:1-4
              I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

              2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

              3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

              4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

              See how David is called God's servant and Chosen in Vs 3 ? Thats the same titles as in Isa 42:1

              Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

              Christ's being God's Elect / Chosen servant, So now notice the Promise to David in Vs 4 as he is God's Chosen and Servant Ps 89:4

              4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

              This also applies to Christ's Seed, David's Antitype, therefore it applies to Christ's Seed those Chosen in Him Eph 1:4 and they shall be Established forever, which Christ has a view of here Isa 53:10

              10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him[His Chosen Servant Isa 42:1]; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

              According to God's Promise to David, Christ shall see His Seed Established ! Because His soul for them was made a offering for sin ! Thats why we read of believers being established or stablished, Paul wrote to believers here this 2 Thess 3:3

              But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

              No doubt this word of promise looks back to the Promise made to David the Type of Christ Ps 89:1-4

              I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

              2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

              3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

              4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

              Comment

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