Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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His Elect !

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  • #91
    Salvation for God's Elect or Chosen !

    Ps 106:4-5

    4 Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

    5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

    The writer here recognizes an Election, A Chosen People for Salvation. No he is not referring to the physical nation of israel itself, but an Israel in Israel, a Chosen People in her, the Election as here Rom 11:7

    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    Thats who the writer has in mind. Notice he calls them thy chosen as in Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Thats the only chosen God has, those Chosen in Him [Christ]

    But notice also he refers to them as thy Inheritance, which again corresponds to Eph 1:18
    18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    The Saints are God's True Chosen People, whether jew or gentile ! Deut 33:3

    Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

    They shall receive God's Words. Remember Jesus said of those given to Him by the Father Jn 17:8

    8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    Ps 85:8

    I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

    Ps 148:14

    He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord.

    Dan 7:27

    And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    Back to our text, the Psalmist calls them His Nation 1 Pet 2:9

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    That would be a Nation that brings forth fruit Matt 21:43

    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


    • #92
      The ancient people or The People of Eternity !

      Isa 44:7

      7 And who, as I, shall call and shall declare it, and set it in order for Me, since I appointed the ancient people? And the things that are coming and shall come, let them show unto them.

      God here states that He appointed the ancient people or it can be rendered the people of eternity, this because the elect in the Purpose of God are a People from Eternity as they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the world began,Eph 1:4 of which also they had their Names inscribed in the Lambs Book of Life befre the foundation, which appointed or made certain their beings in time !

      Their beings were foundationed from everlasting !

      God had from old determined them everlasting Life in everlasting habitations, through the Lord Jesus Christ ! 5


      • #93
        Is Election Salvation ?

        Is Election Salvation ? The answer is both Yes and No. Its yes in that the elect, those chosen to Salvation in Christ are Eternally Saved by the Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

        9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

        But we must answer No in the sense that even the Elect are not born experimentally saved from the power of sin. Like all men they are born experimentally lost, dead in trespasses and sins, and are by nature children of wrath even as others Eph 2:3. This being True, Election in Christ does make certain experimental Salvation [conversion] in time, they shall have bestowed upon them [according to their Election in Christ] all Spiritual Blessings needed to bring about their conversion Eph 1:3-4

        3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

        4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

        The Salvation the Elect experience in time is described in 2 Thess 2:13, a Salvation effected by Sanctification of the Spirit, which results always in belief of the Truth. Believing the Gospel is Conversion. This Saving Work of the Spirit is also pointed out by Paul in Titus 3:5

        5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ]by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

        This is Spiritual Salvation by the Spirit, foundational upon the Finished Work of Christ. This is the Elect's Time Salvation. Before Time Began however based Upon God's Eternal Purpose they have Salvation from the Penalty of their Sins, and are Justified before God .


        • #94
          Those who pervert the Gospel Doctrine of the Election of Grace, do teach that Election is based upon foreseen acts of faith or believing, or what some would say, the accepting of an offered gift, all of which are untrue, false teaching; For the natural man, all the while he is in the flesh, and not born again of God, he is in a lost state of unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

          3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

          4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

          Furthermore his mind is at enmity with God, not able to be subject to the Law of God, and cannot by any means please God in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

          7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

          8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

          Now how God was to foresee them with an act of Faith [which pleases God Heb 11:6] is beyond scripture.

          Now when one is Saved by Grace through Faith, the Faith is not their own, for its all the Gift of God. The Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, and is the result of Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief [Faith] of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

          13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

          That's Faith here, belief of the Truth, in fact the word faith in Eph 2:8 and the word belief in 2 Thess 2:13 are both the noun pistis:
          conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

          Faith here has nothing to do with man's freewill, for again, if Not for Spiritual New Birth, Faith man in nature cannot have, for Faith pleases God Heb 11:6, but those merely in the flesh [unregenerate] cannot please God Rom 8:8, so how could it possibly have been their own faith that God foreseen to elect them to Salvation ? It wasn't, that's all untrue. 5


          • #95
            Mine Elect !

            Isa 42:1

            Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

            Christ's Election only confirms the Election of others, those chosen in Him Eph 1:4.

            Now Christ is the first person elected or chosen of God, for in all things he has the preeminence Col 1:18. Isa 42:1; Matt 12:18.

            He is called the Elect stone, which makes Him the foundation of Election Pet 2:6

            Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

            Now if it be understood that Christ is God's First Elect, then it should be also understood in connection with that, that He is the First Elect Head as such with members, which members are said to be given to Him, and so that is why Paul writes in Col 1:18 which states that in the beginning [of the world] He was the Head of his body the Church, which Headship is that of His and their Eternal Election together, so Jesus said of the Fathers Love for Him and them Jn 17:23-24

            23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

            24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

            And so they were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

            The AMP:

            4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.

            By this we were always accepted in the beloved Eph 1:6

            6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

            Here He is called the beloved as here Matt 12:18

            18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

            Now because Christ is the Father's first Chosen and as Head He is the Heir of all things, and His Body members Chosen with Him and in Him, He is the Heir of all things Heb 1:2

            Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

            and so His Body Members Chosen in Him are His Joint Heirs with Him Rom 8:17

            17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

            All the Elect Chosen in Him before the foundation are , co-inheritors with Him.

            A Believers joint heirship with Christ isn't conditioned upon them believing in time, but their Election in Him before time does, and their believing in Him in time makes manifest that fact, the fact that they were Chosen joint heirs with Him before the foundation.


            • #96
              Faith and Repentance are fruits of Election of Grace

              Both Faith and Repentance are fruits of Election of Grace, and they both are sure to be performed by all for whom Christ died as their Covenant Head Isa 42:6

              6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

              All the means of experimental salvation has been provided for by the Triune God, to include Sanctification by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth [which is Faith in Christ] 2 Thess 2:13.

              Faith that is given is a Covenantal Blessing d is also called the Faith of God's Elect, because its Given only to God's Elect Titus 1:1

              Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

              And its why they believe and others do not; For Jesus says to some who believed not Jn 10:26

              26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep or Elect, as I said unto you.

              The Sheep and Elect are the same persons. When Jesus says to them ye are not of my Sheep, He means they are not of those the Father chose in Him Eph 1:4.

              Now in spite of what all freewillers or arminians may say, Christ's words are true here, and He gives the real reason why some Truly Believe on Him and others do not. So believing on Him is the Gift of God's Electing Grace Phil 1:29

              29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

              Acts 18:27

              27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

              In Election God is pleased to give Faith and Repentance to some and deny them to others, as it seems Good in His Sight.


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