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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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His Elect !

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  • #91
    Salvation for God's Elect or Chosen !


    Ps 106:4-5

    4 Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

    5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

    The writer here recognizes an Election, A Chosen People for Salvation. No he is not referring to the physical nation of israel itself, but an Israel in Israel, a Chosen People in her, the Election as here Rom 11:7

    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    Thats who the writer has in mind. Notice he calls them thy chosen as in Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Thats the only chosen God has, those Chosen in Him [Christ]

    But notice also he refers to them as thy Inheritance, which again corresponds to Eph 1:18
    18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    The Saints are God's True Chosen People, whether jew or gentile ! Deut 33:3

    Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

    They shall receive God's Words. Remember Jesus said of those given to Him by the Father Jn 17:8

    8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    Ps 85:8

    I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

    Ps 148:14

    He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord.

    Dan 7:27

    And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    Back to our text, the Psalmist calls them His Nation 1 Pet 2:9

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    That would be a Nation that brings forth fruit Matt 21:43

    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    Comment


    • #92
      The ancient people or The People of Eternity !


      Isa 44:7

      7 And who, as I, shall call and shall declare it, and set it in order for Me, since I appointed the ancient people? And the things that are coming and shall come, let them show unto them.

      God here states that He appointed the ancient people or it can be rendered the people of eternity, this because the elect in the Purpose of God are a People from Eternity as they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the world began,Eph 1:4 of which also they had their Names inscribed in the Lambs Book of Life befre the foundation, which appointed or made certain their beings in time !

      Their beings were foundationed from everlasting !


      God had from old determined them everlasting Life in everlasting habitations, through the Lord Jesus Christ ! 5

      Comment


      • #93
        Is Election Salvation ?


        Is Election Salvation ? The answer is both Yes and No. Its yes in that the elect, those chosen to Salvation in Christ are Eternally Saved by the Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

        9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

        But we must answer No in the sense that even the Elect are not born experimentally saved from the power of sin. Like all men they are born experimentally lost, dead in trespasses and sins, and are by nature children of wrath even as others Eph 2:3. This being True, Election in Christ does make certain experimental Salvation [conversion] in time, they shall have bestowed upon them [according to their Election in Christ] all Spiritual Blessings needed to bring about their conversion Eph 1:3-4

        3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

        4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

        The Salvation the Elect experience in time is described in 2 Thess 2:13, a Salvation effected by Sanctification of the Spirit, which results always in belief of the Truth. Believing the Gospel is Conversion. This Saving Work of the Spirit is also pointed out by Paul in Titus 3:5

        5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ]by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

        This is Spiritual Salvation by the Spirit, foundational upon the Finished Work of Christ. This is the Elect's Time Salvation. Before Time Began however based Upon God's Eternal Purpose they have Salvation from the Penalty of their Sins, and are Justified before God .

        Comment


        • #94
          Those who pervert the Gospel Doctrine of the Election of Grace, do teach that Election is based upon foreseen acts of faith or believing, or what some would say, the accepting of an offered gift, all of which are untrue, false teaching; For the natural man, all the while he is in the flesh, and not born again of God, he is in a lost state of unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4

          3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

          4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

          Furthermore his mind is at enmity with God, not able to be subject to the Law of God, and cannot by any means please God in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

          7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

          8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

          Now how God was to foresee them with an act of Faith [which pleases God Heb 11:6] is beyond scripture.


          Now when one is Saved by Grace through Faith, the Faith is not their own, for its all the Gift of God. The Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, and is the result of Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief [Faith] of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

          13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

          That's Faith here, belief of the Truth, in fact the word faith in Eph 2:8 and the word belief in 2 Thess 2:13 are both the noun pistis:
          conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

          Faith here has nothing to do with man's freewill, for again, if Not for Spiritual New Birth, Faith man in nature cannot have, for Faith pleases God Heb 11:6, but those merely in the flesh [unregenerate] cannot please God Rom 8:8, so how could it possibly have been their own faith that God foreseen to elect them to Salvation ? It wasn't, that's all untrue. 5

          Comment


          • #95
            Mine Elect !

            Isa 42:1

            Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

            Christ's Election only confirms the Election of others, those chosen in Him Eph 1:4.

            Now Christ is the first person elected or chosen of God, for in all things he has the preeminence Col 1:18. Isa 42:1; Matt 12:18.

            He is called the Elect stone, which makes Him the foundation of Election Pet 2:6

            Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

            Now if it be understood that Christ is God's First Elect, then it should be also understood in connection with that, that He is the First Elect Head as such with members, which members are said to be given to Him, and so that is why Paul writes in Col 1:18 which states that in the beginning [of the world] He was the Head of his body the Church, which Headship is that of His and their Eternal Election together, so Jesus said of the Fathers Love for Him and them Jn 17:23-24

            23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

            24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

            And so they were Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

            The AMP:

            4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.

            By this we were always accepted in the beloved Eph 1:6

            6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

            Here He is called the beloved as here Matt 12:18

            18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

            Now because Christ is the Father's first Chosen and as Head He is the Heir of all things, and His Body members Chosen with Him and in Him, He is the Heir of all things Heb 1:2

            Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

            and so His Body Members Chosen in Him are His Joint Heirs with Him Rom 8:17

            17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

            All the Elect Chosen in Him before the foundation are , co-inheritors with Him.

            A Believers joint heirship with Christ isn't conditioned upon them believing in time, but their Election in Him before time does, and their believing in Him in time makes manifest that fact, the fact that they were Chosen joint heirs with Him before the foundation.

            Comment


            • #96
              Faith and Repentance are fruits of Election of Grace


              Both Faith and Repentance are fruits of Election of Grace, and they both are sure to be performed by all for whom Christ died as their Covenant Head Isa 42:6

              6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

              All the means of experimental salvation has been provided for by the Triune God, to include Sanctification by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth [which is Faith in Christ] 2 Thess 2:13.

              Faith that is given is a Covenantal Blessing d is also called the Faith of God's Elect, because its Given only to God's Elect Titus 1:1

              Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

              And its why they believe and others do not; For Jesus says to some who believed not Jn 10:26

              26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep or Elect, as I said unto you.

              The Sheep and Elect are the same persons. When Jesus says to them ye are not of my Sheep, He means they are not of those the Father chose in Him Eph 1:4.

              Now in spite of what all freewillers or arminians may say, Christ's words are true here, and He gives the real reason why some Truly Believe on Him and others do not. So believing on Him is the Gift of God's Electing Grace Phil 1:29

              29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

              Acts 18:27

              27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

              In Election God is pleased to give Faith and Repentance to some and deny them to others, as it seems Good in His Sight.

              Comment


              • #97
                The Called / Elect !


                The Elect of God are also the Called of God, for not all men are God's Elect, and so not all men are the Called of God. " The Called" are distinguished from all others s so are the Elect as seen Rom 8:28

                28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

                The Called according to His Purpose. The same is noticed here Rom 9:24,23


                24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

                All without exception are not recipients of this Call, but the Vessels of Mercy Vs 23

                Again 1 Cor 1:24,26

                24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

                For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

                Rom 1:6

                Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

                These the Called are distinguished from all of mankind in general ho are not the called.

                Now understand this, The Called according to God's Purpose, is not speaking of an general external call of the Gospel preached in word only 1 Thess 1:5

                5 For our gospel[call] came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

                But this Call is internal and drawing, and the Spirit is the author of it as Acts 13:2

                As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

                In Truth, all Believers had been called and separated for the Works God has before ordained for them to walk in them Eph 2:10

                10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

                This Call also is unto Grace and Glory 2 Thess 2:13-14

                13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

                14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

                Remember they are the Vessels of Mercy being Called who Paul said Rom 9:23-24

                23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

                24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 5

                Comment


                • #98
                  Christ, God's Elect !


                  It's no secret from scripture that Christ is God's Elect, The Chosen of God Isa 42:1

                  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

                  Lk 23:35

                  And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

                  And that being the case, all those God chose in Him Eph 1:4 are the chosen of God.

                  Let me explain further, Adam the first man created on earth was a figure /type of Him to come, which was Christ the last Adam Rom 5:14

                  14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

                  14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.ESV

                  Christ the Last Adam 1 Cor 15:45

                  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam[Christ] was made a quickening spirit.

                  Now in the type, Adam had within him [at his beginning], his bride to be, or wife, and his offspring/ descendants or generations. Gen 5:1-2

                  This is the book of the generation descendants of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

                  2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

                  Now if Christ is God's Elect as scripture states, then also His Bride/ Wife and Descendants/Offspring/Generations were in Him as His Type, and so that would make them Elect, thats only reasonable

                  Also Notice again Lk 23:35, it reads Christ, the Chosen of God, and we know there is no Christ apart from His Members, 1 Cor 12:12

                  12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

                  Christ is the Head of the Body, which body has many members, composed of His wife and descendants [spiritually] He was the Head from the Beginning Col 1:18

                  18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

                  The only way to do away with a elect people or a chosen generation 1 Pet 2:9

                  9 But ye are a chosen generation/offspring, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

                  To do away with that, you would have to do away with the Chosen Head Christ Lk 23:35

                  35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

                  There simply is No Christ without His Body, and when we deny particular Election of a People, we deny Christ.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The Election of Grace !


                    Rom 11:5-7

                    5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

                    6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

                    The Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7, folks that is what Salvation by Grace through Faith without works is all about. Its rooted in the Election of Grace. Now for it to be of the Election of Grace, and not of works Vs 6, then its unconditional and not influenced by anything outside of God own good pleasure within Himself.

                    Paul explains the principle involved in God's Election of Grace here in Rom 9:11-13

                    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

                    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

                    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

                    Basically in a nutshell, Paul is stating that the Election of Grace, having been chosen by God before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, that God's choice of them was not influenced by anything He did foresee , but that its solely according to His own will and good pleasure Eph 1:5

                    Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

                    God never considered the actions or deeds of the Election of Grace whether good or bad ! God's choosing of His elect, the election of Grace, which is also the purpose of election in Rpm 9:11, was before any foreseen works, conditions , steps by them, but solely, that the Purpose of Election should stand, according to His own good pleasure.

                    Anyone therefore who teaches that God's Election of Grace to Salvation of some is based on anything He foresaw of them, like faith, repentance, or anything else, they deny Salvation by Grace through Faith, not of works, and are nothing but proud boasters, probably on their way to hell unless God converts them !

                    The reason why all this is True is because God chose them in Christ, and not out of adam or in adam. If this be not true, then the Elect were in adam before they were in Christ, who was before in the Eternal Godhead, [See Jn 1:15] But scripture says they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world or before adam existed Eph 1:4 !

                    Comment


                    • Christ's Eternal Election !

                      Christ's Eternal Election is His church's as well, for many of the adversaries of the Truth of Election, who oppose the Divine Election of individuals in Christ from the foundation, they attempt to subvert it by stating that only Christ is God's Elect Isa 42:1

                      Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

                      Which of course is True, but that fact only makes individual election of others Chosen in Him Eph 1:4 a certain fact as well !

                      When Christ was made God's Elect [an Eternal Act], He was chosen or elected as a Head, the Head of His Body the Church, which is what Paul means here Col 1:15-18
                      15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

                      16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

                      17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

                      18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

                      When it says in Vs 17 that He is before all things, this includes His Being as the Head of the Body the Church., He was before all things as the Head of the Body, the Church !

                      Also Christ is the Antitype of the first adam out of the earth, or adam was a type or figure of Christ Rom 5:14, hence the Last Adam and the First adam, and when adam was brought into existence, it was not him as a mere private person or single individual, God created him with his wife and seed in him,

                      So stated here Gen 5:1-2

                      This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

                      2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

                      Well Christ as the First born of Every Creature Col 1:15, had His Bride the Church in Him Col 1:17-18.

                      Adam from the standpoint of natural creation, was the firstborn, but he had others in him, which are called his Generations Gen 5:1

                      This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

                      He had his generations [I.descendants,] in him, and likewise Christ as the Firstborn of every creature had His Generations in Him, the many brethren

                      Rom 8:29

                      29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

                      So when our adversaries attempt to deny the Election of some by dogmatically insisting that Christ alone is God's Elect, they are only reaffirming, though ignorantly, the Election also of the Many Brethren, the Church, His Body with Him His seed, Just as Adam's Election in Natural Creation, his descendants were in him ! 5

                      Comment


                      • Christ's Eternal Election ! 2


                        When Christ was Chosen and set up as the seminal Head and Spiritual embodiment of the Election of Grace, all there individual persons, though uncreated, were foreknown by God. This is typed out here with the inspired words of David Ps 139:14-16

                        14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

                        15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

                        16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

                        Hence they are the Elect according to the foreknowledge of God 1 Pet 1:2

                        2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

                        Because of their Election Union with Christ who was the Foreknown of God 1 Pet 1:20

                        20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

                        These are the same words in the original, foreknowledge and foreknown !

                        And Just as Christ here was foreknown or foreordained " before the foundation of the world"

                        They, the Election 1 Pet 1:2 were also Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

                        4 According as he hath chosen us in him "before the foundation of the world", that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

                        As Christ was the Beloved of the Father before the foundation, and the elect Chosen and accepted in Him Eph 1:6

                        6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

                        That relates even more to them being the beloved of the Lord and their being chosen in Him 2 Thess 2:13

                        13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

                        This their Election in Christ is Eternal for the existence of Christ as their Chosen Head is Eternal, so again when Christ was setup as God's Elect, then were all the Chosen in Him Elected and Chosen, and Grace was given them in Christ before Adam was created from the dust of the ground, before there was any ground at all Prov 8:25-26

                        25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

                        26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

                        Christ's delight was in them as the Fathers delight was in Him then Prov 8:30-31

                        30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

                        31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men[Adam]. 5

                        Comment


                        • From the beginning God hath chosen you to Salvation !


                          2 Thess 2:13

                          But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

                          Whenever we contemplate a Divine Act of this sort from the Eternal God, we should view it as an act occurring outside of time or the temporal and in the sphere where God is Eternal Deut 33:7

                          The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say , Destroy them.

                          Isa 57:15

                          For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones .

                          So what does the words "from the beginning" purport in this Salvation statement ?

                          From scripture I believe it means from Everlasting as stated here Prov 8:23

                          was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

                          Or " ever the earth was". The scheme, counsel, purpose was founded, the recipients of it Chosen Prov 8:31

                          Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

                          These Son's of men we believe to be the same as those called the Beloved of God in 2 Thess 2:13

                          But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

                          One of the meanings of Beloved is to take pleasure in or to say to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing

                          As does delights in Prov 8:31 So those the Preincarnate Christ delighted in, are also those from the beginning beloved of the Lord ! So from Everlasting, the Beloved of the Lord, those He delighted in, were Chosen to Salvation from Everlasting ! 5

                          Comment


                          • From the beginning God hath chosen you to Salvation 2


                            Another scriptural way of determining what " from the beginning" means in 2 Thess 2:13 in this matter of being Chosen by God to Salvation, and that it does mean from everlasting or before the foundation of the world, lets look at another scripture about being Chosen by God Eph 1:4

                            According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

                            The Us here are the Church, the Body of Christ whom He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25. So here again Paul tells the Church that God hath Chosen us in the Beloved, When ? before the foundation of the world or as Solomon wrote Prov 8:23

                            I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

                            Now only those whose minds are blinded by the god of this world reject or twist these Divine and sublime Truths of the Kingdom of God !

                            Comment


                            • Election is based upon Grace, not race or works !


                              Rom 9:11

                              11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

                              Rom 11:5,6

                              5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

                              6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                              The antichrist followers , those who reject the clear testimony of scripture, that God's Election Purpose and Principle is not based upon works, or any foreseen act of man, whether good or bad, they will nevertheless with contempt and a high hand against God's Truth, they will take a scripture like 1 Pet 1:2

                              2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

                              and wickedly and blatantly assert, that God Elected a Person by His Foreknowledge when He looked into the future and saw who was going believe on Christ by exercising their own freewill, or accept Him, hence imposing upon us to believe that God chooses people for Salvation based upon the very things that His Word declares He did not DO, that is to choose them based upon their works, their doings, their acts, their step ; because rest assured, believing ,or Faith is a work that man does mentally !

                              The biblical definition of a work is gathered from the greek word ergon :

                              work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
                              érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

                              any product whatever, anything accomplished by hand, art, industry, mind

                              And so the antichrist teachers, in outright highhanded rebellion to the clear scripture testimony Rom 9:11

                              11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

                              Teach contrary to it, we cannot be more defiant than that against the Authority of God's Word ! 5

                              Comment


                              • As the elect of God !


                                Col 3:12

                                12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

                                Being the Elect of God is God owning that they are One with His Son, The Elect of God Isa 42:1

                                Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

                                Also indicated here Lk 23:35

                                35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

                                Note: Christ the Chosen of God ! The same word for Elect in Col 3:12 !

                                Its the same Word because they are both of One Heb 2:11

                                11 For both he[Christ] that sanctifieth and they[Church] who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

                                Just as Christ and His Members are One and Called Christ 1 Cor 12:12

                                12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

                                If Christ is God's Elect, who is the Head Isa 42:1 so then are His Members of His Body Elect, for they are One Whole !

                                Remember Christ is designated as a Seed Singular Gal 3:16

                                16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

                                Yet that One Seed is composed of many members 1 Cor 12:12 and so those members are the same, the Elect of Chosen of God as He is Isa 42:1

                                Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

                                Lk 23:35

                                35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

                                So in essence to deny Election is to Deny Christ , and when was Christ first God's Elect ? 2 Tim 1:9

                                9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

                                Does not Christ say here Jn 17:24

                                24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.5

                                Comment

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