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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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His Elect !

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  • #61

    Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9

    Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    2 Tim 1:9

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4] are the ones also given to Him by the Father to give unto them eternal life Jn 17:2

    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    He shouldn't give it [eternal life] to all without exception, but to only as many as given to Him Eph 1:4 !

    So these would be given to Him as a reward for His suffering, which was the Joy set before Him Heb 12:2, they were given also to come to Him in Faith as for His Reward Jn 6:37

    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    Those who do come to Christ in Faith had been given of the Father, and so it was given to them [who come] to believe on His Name, not for their sakes, but for Christ's behalf Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you[That Believe] it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    Notice, it is given in behalf of Christ ! Thats because believers are given to Christ as The Father's Reward to Him for His Cross Work. Ps 2:8

    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

    All Saints are Christ's Inheritance Eph 1:18, neither does it matter if they are the Son's Inheritance or the Fathers because Jesus did say Jn 17:10

    And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

    Now those given to Christ by the Father before time, is the foundational cause for which they come to Him in time, so that it comes to past as Per 2 Tim 2:19

    19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his[His Inheritance]. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    BTW this excludes these from ever being the Lords, those He knows Matt 7:23

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Now this departing from iniquity as per 2 Tim 2:19 for those who are Christ's and He knows that are His, this departing from iniquity is effected by His Redeeming Death for them as Per Titus 2:14

    14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    For it is of the Righteousness of God that the Son of His Love has in possession those he purchased with His own Blood ! And so Faith is allotted to them all 2 Pet 1:1

    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

    Thats why it is said of Paul it is given to believe on Christ on Christ's Behalf Phil 1:29 ! 3

    Comment


    • #62
      Eph 1:4

      4 According as he hath chosen us [in him before the foundation of the world], that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

      4 καθως εξελεξατο ημας εν [αυτω προ καταβολης κοσμου] ειναι ημας αγιους και αμωμους κατενωπιον αυτου εν αγαπη
      4 Just as he {got us chosen} chose us in [him before the foundation of the world] us to be holy and blameless {in his presence} before him in love
      He who was and is before the foundation of the world chose us. He chose us to become holy and blameless.

      That second ημας (hemas, us) is not insignificant.
      Last edited by tabibito; 11-03-2022, 06:13 AM.
      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
        Eph 1:4

        4 According as he hath chosen us [in him before the foundation of the world], that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

        4 καθως εξελεξατο ημας εν [αυτω προ καταβολης κοσμου] ειναι ημας αγιους και αμωμους κατενωπιον αυτου εν αγαπη
        4 Just as he {got us chosen} chose us in [him before the foundation of the world] us to be holy and blameless {in his presence} before him in love
        He who was and is before the foundation of the world chose us. He chose us to become holy and blameless.

        That second ημας (hemas, us) is not insignificant.
        And those He chose in Christ before the foundation, by Christs death for them, hath been made holy and without blame before Him in Love. Thats a benefit of #1 Being Chosen, #2 Christ redeeming them by His Blood Eph 1:6-7

        6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

        7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

        Comment


        • #64
          Those given to Christ !

          Jn 17:2

          2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

          Those given to Christ, that do come to Him or do believe in Him, as it is evidenced by His Chosen disciples that were presently before Him when He was saying these words of Jn 17, now if any of those given Him by His Father, be lost, then He has failed His Fathers will for Him, for it is written Jn 6:37-38

          37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

          38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will/desire/pleasure of him that sent me.

          39 And this is the father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.


          Now vs 39 is in regard to all the Father hath chosen in Him Eph 1:4

          And vs 40

          40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

          again emphasizes those Chosen, with the added comment of what is the result or effect of God's choice of them, they see [spiritually] the Son and Believe in Him. They must see Him because, as the father gave them to Him, He also Gave Him to them as a Covenant to them, which results in this Isa 42:6-7

          I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

          7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

          Yes, once their blind eyes are opened from their natural state of blindness, they see the Son, and Believe in Him as their Salvation, but if just one for whom was given to Him by the Father, should perish and be lost, Christ did fail His Father's will, desire, and pleasure; and those false teachers that teach that Christ died for any who shall be lost, they do preach Christ as a failure of His Father's will, which is Blasphemy at it's Highest. Simply Put, if we believe any for whom Christ died shall perish in their sins, we do blaspheme!

          Comment


          • #65

            Of Him [The Father] are ye in Christ!

            1 Cor 1:30

            30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

            Of Him the Father are any in Christ Jesus [ by which in Him is No Condemnation Rom 8:1], it is because of the Father's choice of some of us, that we are in Christ, and this choice was before the foundation of the World Eph 1:3-4

            3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

            This Choice of the Father is also called Sanctification by the Father according to Jude 1:1

            Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

            Whereby, by His Eternal Purpose of Election, He set us apart for His Son Jesus Christ. This Truth is also seen in Christ's Parable here Matt 22:1-5

            And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

            2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

            3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

            4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

            5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

            But vs 14 lets us know that all were not chosen Matt 22:14

            14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

            And those few are those here Eph 1:4

            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

            Comment


            • #66
              Redemption is only for the Elect of God !

              Eph 1:7

              7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

              Whose the we here Paul is referring to ? Its those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

              4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

              That the Redemption God gives is only for the Elect People is seen from the OT Scriptures which gives a Covenant Command Ps 130:7-8

              7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

              8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

              Israel is another name for God's Elect. Notice vs7, Its only the Elect that are called to Hope in God, and to find Mercy in Redemption, and only the Elect [Israel] that is promised to be redeemed from all His iniquties.

              Its Israel or the Elect here also Titus 2:14

              14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

              Remember who Paul is writing to here in Titus ! Titus 1:1-2

              Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

              2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

              Notice that the promise in Ps 130:8 for Israel is this:

              8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

              And notice what Christ came to do in His Death for His Elect in Titus 2:14

              that he might redeem us from all iniquity !

              You see its the same thing, to redeem from all iniquity a certain People, the Elect of God or the Israel of God. This also means that Israel and the Church are the same !

              God sends redemption to His People, His Chosen Ps 111:9


              He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

              Comment


              • #67
                Jesus always defends His Elect no matter how sinful!


                1 Jn 2:1

                My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

                Rom 8:33-34

                33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

                34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

                It is no secret that God's Elect are great sinners, simply because they as all men are, born sinners, and are by nature enemies to God and what is all Holy and Righteous, But, Christ who died and rose in their behalf will always defend them before God's Law and Justice from all deserving accusations!

                This is vividly set forth with the case of Joshua the High Priest of the Lord Zech 3:1-4

                And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

                2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

                3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and stood before the angel.

                4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

                Joshua the High Priest was wearing filthy garments, analogous of all God's People by nature, and no doubt satan the accuser of the brethren had brought accusation against him Rev 12:9-10

                9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

                10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

                Now there is no doubt Joshua as well as all the Elect of God can be accused of something amiss in their lives here in this flesh Rom 7:18-19

                18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

                19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

                However, notice the response from the Lord, for the Lord did not deny the filthiness of His Servant, but said:

                The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee

                Yes, God pointed out that Joshua was part of that special Chosen People, the Jerusalem of God, even those Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4, in essence the Lord was echoing Paul's words here Rom 8:33-34

                33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

                34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

                And then the Lord gives us to see, that He has clothed His Chosen People with His Own special woven Garments for them to wear

                The Lord said
                4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

                Notice, God has taken away his iniquity, which speaks of the completed Work of Christ for the sins of His People, and then He clothes us with His Garments of Salvation, which is Christ's Righteousness Imputed to us ! Isa 61:10

                I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

                You see that ? Thats Free Grace , that is The Election of grace. The Lord Jesus Christ defends as a Defensive Attorney, an Advocate in the Court of law, all the Chosen of God, the Election of Grace, no matter how sinful it they can be seen to be, simply because they are the Chosen, as such, converted or not, believers or not, they are Reconciled to God [In His Law and Justice] and Clothed in the Imputed Righteousness of Christ ! 3

                Comment


                • #68
                  Jn 10:16

                  16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

                  That Election gives one a special interest in Christ before they believe in Him, because even before they do so, Christ claims them as His Own " Other Sheep I have"

                  This word have is the greek word echo and means:

                  to have, i.e. to hold

                  to have i.e. own, possess

                  to be closely joined to a person or a thing

                  And its rendered in the present tense, Other Sheep I am having or owning !

                  And this True of them before hearing His Voice which is a prerequisite before believing, even before they listen to Him or Hearken; But the key here is that before such, He still is having them by Election ! Eph 1:4 In fact, If Christ had no interest in His Sheep by Election, for His Father gave them Him Jn 10:29a " My Father, which gave them me" there would have been no basis for Him to die for them and redeem them !

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Limited Atonement and Election !


                    The fact that God called and separated Israel from the rest of the Nations of Mankind, and even in that Nation called in Abraham Gen 12:1-3, there was only a remnant of the True Chosen to Salvation Matt 22:14

                    For many are called, but few are chosen.

                    Rom 9:27

                    Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

                    BTW, this scripture confirms that God never purposed to save all Israel the ethnic Nation!

                    So God's Salvation is restricted to God's Purpose of Election, His Israel Spiritual Isa 45:17

                    But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

                    Rom 9:11

                    For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

                    Rom 11:5-6

                    5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

                    6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                    For God has only promised to save Israel, that is why the Apostle to the Gentiles said Acts 13:23

                    Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

                    Isa 45:15

                    Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

                    And even as God's saving Purpose went beyond the physical boundaries of the called nation Israel, and into the other Nations of the World, it was still only to gather in Israel or the Elect among the Nations, so we see language like this Rom 11:26

                    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

                    And once all Israel is gathered and saved, that is God saving His World, the Total Collection of the Israel of God!

                    And we never understand the True God aright until we are made to bow and embrace the Gospel Truth of God's Gracious Sovereign unconditional Election, and that it is not purposed that God gives Saving Grace equally to all men without exception, for with some He did Purpose Rom 9:11, and the rest He did not Rom 11:7, according to His Own Will, and if this True fact is not settled in the heart, and you even find yourself in opposition to it, you serve an idol of your own imagination and not the God of Israel, who is the God of the Whole Earth ! Isa 54:5

                    For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Unconditional discriminatory Election does not make God a respecter of persons, for if that was the case, it could not be rightfully called The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

                      5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

                      And to top that off, His Election of Grace has not been restricted to just one particular ethnicity, but it accounts for The redeemed that is out of every nation, tongue, kindred and people Rev 5:9

                      9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

                      And these all constitute the Israel of God

                      Notice vs 10

                      10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

                      Now who was this said to before? Ex 19:6

                      And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

                      Now Rev 5:10 has been rendered thusly:

                      ESV and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” 3

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Election Believed and taught in the OT !


                        Ps 65:4

                        4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

                        The word choosest is the hebrew word bachar:

                        to choose, elect, decide for

                        a) (Qal) to choose

                        b) (Niphal) to be chosen

                        c) (Pual) to be chosen, selected

                        And this being chosen is what causetst one's approach in faith, hence the faith of God's Elect. The word causets is the word qarab:

                        to come near, approach, enter into, draw near

                        a) (Qal) to approach, draw near

                        b) (Niphal) to be brought near

                        c) (Piel) to cause to approach, bring near, cause to draw near

                        d) (Hiphil) to bring near, bring, present

                        The person is being passively brought near, being caused to approach, its the working of God in a person both to will and do of His good pleasure, its the effect of the Cross of Christ also Eph 2:13.

                        This is but God calling whom He will into blessed fellowship with Himself and the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor 1:9

                        9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

                        And this is also called the Election of God of which He is the Sovereign cause 1 Thess 1:4

                        4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 3

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Election is in Christ!

                          Election is in Christ or some have been chosen in Christ, When ? Before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

                          4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

                          And let it be known, that this Election puts one in Christ that early, and that of God are they in Christ Jesus 1 Cor 1:30a

                          30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

                          Not of our faith, our choosing or our repentance, but of God's Sovereign choice by Grace. This Election gave one a Representative Being in Christ, like Levi had in the Loins of Abraham Heb 7:9-10

                          9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

                          10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

                          It also gives a Representative Union with Him, and it is at conversion when believing the Truth, that Union is made manifest openly, and is evidence of having been in Christ before. This is the same as Eve's open marriage to Adam, did but give Evidence that She previously had a Union with him before, and of course Paul likens that to the Church and Christ Eph 5:28-32

                          28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

                          29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

                          30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

                          31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

                          32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


                          That Eve had this Union with Adam at Adam's Creation is clear from Gen 5:1-2

                          This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

                          2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

                          And so Later God brought the woman to the Man Gen 2:22

                          22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

                          God caused her to come to the man, Just like He causes The Church, Christ's Bride to come to Him Jn 6:37

                          37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

                          Which in the final analysis will be all those Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4 ! 4

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Chosen to Believe and Why !

                            Eph 1:4

                            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

                            Chosen that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love ! Some ignorantly say that scripture does not teach an election to believe in Christ, but that is another lie from the father of lies and his minions, for our present scripture teaches that very thing; for in being Chosen to be Holy, accompanied with that is Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13, for its by the sanctifying Work of the Spirit [New Birth] see Eph 4:24 that we become experientially Holy, which answers the Purpose of Eph 1:4

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Predestinated to Faith !


                              The Elect or Chosen are predestinated to Faith in Christ as it is taught in Eph 1:5

                              5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

                              For we are openly, manifestly the sons of God by Faith in Christ Gal 3:26

                              26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. also Gal 3:7

                              7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

                              However before faith or our adoption is revealed, we are as others by nature foreigners and strangers, enemies, even children of wrath as others, but because our being the Children of God by election is before faith not known or yet discovered, however our Adoption in time by Jesus Christ makes it known , which Adoption is the End of Predestination ! Also more of that making known of Adoption will occur at the Second Coming ! That also was the End of Predestination ! 4

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                God's Chosen People !

                                Deut 7:6-8

                                6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

                                7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

                                8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

                                It baffles me on how today organized religion rejects the Truth of God that God has a Chosen People on this Earth, a People that He Loved and Loves and values over and above all other people, for what can be plainer from the words of our text. This special people was not only Chosen but Loved by God above all other people, they were also Holy Holy to the Lord.

                                With this in mind, why is it that people reject the Truth that God has a special people whom He shows special preference above and over all others ?

                                Now many will say that the text refers to ethnic jews, and at that time it did, but not to all of them without exception, but only those that belonged to a remnant according to the Election of Grace, having been Chosen first Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4, and those Loved in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39 ! Also there are no people that is Holy to God outside of Christ Jesus, now with that in mind, it should be easier to understand who the Chosen People are God is referring to in Deut 7:6-8, why its the Church of Eph 1:4-3:21 !

                                Comment

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                                Last Post brightfame52  
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