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What is the experience known as 'Receiving the Holy Spirit'?

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  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post

    Amen. This is true.
    You're not far from the Kingdom of God.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKC_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    This is how we become blessings to the world, by guiding them to God, through being lights revealing His goodness, His willing and ability to save from problems...
    Amen. This is true.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    As you can see, the text says the people heard the Gospel, the availability of jobs to be blessings to the world, as well as the training to obtain that job, proved by the witnessing of the work of the finger of God, just like we did. On believing, they experienced the edification of the Holy Spirit, saw suffering and rescue, cross and resurrection. Today we get a concentrated dose of that experience, because tongues edify.

    After receiving training from the Holy Spirit, that training should change us, make us different people, make us born again. If it doesn't, we won't be allowed into the Kingdom, receive the spiritual state of having God with us, in turn resulting in being able to pick up crosses, lay down our lives, only to pick it up again, through the help, finger, of God, like all Israel, except for Caleb.

    Rather, if we receive the spiritual state called the Kingdom of God, we will have gifts, either to heal people or explain difficult Scripture, problems which God staged in advance for us to solve.

    Is 45
    7I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

    Ep 2
    10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

    John 9
    1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

    3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must doa the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”


    This is how we become blessings to the world, by guiding them to God, through being lights revealing His goodness, His willing and ability to save from problems, to the world.
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-31-2022, 11:22 AM.

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  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post

    No offense intended, but surely they are a list of fleshly works; a demand for human effort required to earn God's blessing.
    Well, there is the whole "God accepts anyone who fears him and does what is right" thing. Of course - the person who repents does just that.





    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    Acts 19
    6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.


    Exactly. :-) The Bible is pretty plain and clear about the baptism of the Holy Spirit; it is often this simple.
    Not to mention that such exercise of the gifts of the Spirit is evidence of empowerment. As is the ability to persevere in the faith despite adversity.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post

    This is an excellent summary, my friend, of the Father's will for every disciple of Jesus. Just change "receiving the Holy Spirit" to that, drop the "seen as", and you've got it.

    Not really, it is exactly what happens when we believe there is a better life that God can lead us into, and show that belief by coming out of the world/Egypt, like Abraham and Israel. God immediately begins training us to have more faith, edifies our faith, by demonstrating His ability and willingness to save from suffering. Didn't He do it with Abraham, Israel and…Christ?



    //Yes, this shows that Abraham had faith. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, though. The passage is about Jesus claiming to be the Messiah. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, my friend.//

    Not really, it shows Abraham saw Christ, synecdoche for cross and resurrection. He expected good training, bread from heaven, and got it, unlike Israel, who mocked God:


    Psalm 78

    19They spoke against God; they said, “Can God really spread a table in the wilderness?



    This passage shows, among other things, that God is awesomely powerful. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit.

    Not really, it's the suffering and rescue that the ministry of the Holy Spirit performs, creates, to edify. Also known as the experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit into Christ.



    Among other things, this passage shows that God is awesomely powerful. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Not really, this again shows the suffering and rescue that the Holy Spirit creates, to edify. Also known as the experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit into Christ.



    My friend, where's the connection to the Holy Spirit in any of these verses you've quoted? There's absolutely no mention anywhere. As I said before, you are claiming a connection where there's no mention of one.

    I've shown that when a person believes the Gospel, that there is a good job available, which can be obtained by doing and passing the course offered by God (to edify, create the faith required to do that job), training to learn obedience from suffering is given, which is to be passed. Israel failed, so did Ananias and Sapphira.



    Exactly. :-) The Bible is pretty plain and clear about the baptism of the Holy Spirit; it is often this simple.

    And the Bible says tongues build up the faith of believers, and if successful, they are allowed into the Kingdom, where they are gifted and solve problems and become lights guiding people to God.


    Ep 4

    7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.


    8Therefore it says,

    “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH,

    HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES,

    AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.”


    1 Cor 14

    24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.



    This passage shows that God is awesomely powerful, among other things. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Not really, this again shows the suffering and rescue that the Holy Spirit creates, to edify. Also known as the experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit into Christ. And these things were written because the jobs have been offered again, to be blessings to the world, and we shouldn't do what Israel did:


    Rom 15

    4For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.



    Also nothing to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Ananias and Sapphira had the Holy Spirit fall on them, and drank from the Rock, and the Rock was Christ, cross and resurrection. When tested, they lied to the Holy Spirit, claimed they had had a different spirit, when they could have told the truth, that they still had not received enough edification.


    You know, not one commentator has explained, solved the problem of identifying how they lied to the Holy Spirit, and I, through the finger of God, have done it. How many more signs, proofs, do you by want that I am saved, and you are not?! Don't be like Israel, Chorazin and Bethsaida, who would not believe when shown.



    Exactly, my brother. Like your list of required rules for receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. No offense intended, but surely they are a list of fleshly works; a demand for human effort required to earn God's blessing.

    Not really, they show what is required to be saved, enter rest.


    Believe that the job exists, can be obtained by passing the course offered by God: you will receive the course.


    Believe what the course teaches, God always rescues from suffering, so obey His command to pick up crosses: you will obtain the job.



    No, I heard it and accepted it years ago, my friend. I just don't see the Bible agreeing with your list of requirements. Keeping faith during our trials is very important and necessary for our spiritual journey, absolutely, and thank you sincerely for the reminder. You just haven't demonstrated a biblical connection between them and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's all.


    But again, your summary of the life of a disciple is very good. Thank you for that, brother, and many Kingdom blessings

    If you heard the correct gospel you would have no problem agreeing with me. The fact that you haven't recited your version of the gospel means it is not the same Gospel. Means you have found faults in it and are not confident to repeat it.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKC_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    Receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving the faith-building, edifying ministry of the Holy Spirit, seen as being led into danger, to witness rescue, see cross and resurrection, see Christ, so that we can function in the Kingdom, where we will pick up the cross every day, and follow Jesus' example in being a light guiding the world to God, being a blessing to it in this Way:
    This is an excellent summary, my friend, of the Father's will for every disciple of Jesus. Just change "receiving the Holy Spirit" to that, drop the "seen as", and you've got it.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    John 8
    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
    Yes, this shows that Abraham had faith. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, though.

    The passage is about Jesus claiming to be the Messiah. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    Genesis 12
    17 But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram’s wife Sarai.
    This passage shows, among other things, that God is awesomely powerful. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    Nehemiah 9
    15 In their hunger you gave them bread from heaven and in their thirst you brought them water from the rock; you told them to go in and take possession of the land you had sworn with uplifted hand to give them.
    Among other things, this passage shows that God is awesomely powerful. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    Matthew 4
    11 Then the devil left Him, and angels came and ministered to Him.
    My friend, where's the connection to the Holy Spirit in any of these verses you've quoted? There's absolutely no mention anywhere. As I said before, you are claiming a connection where there's no mention of one.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    Acts 19
    6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
    Exactly. :-) The Bible is pretty plain and clear about the baptism of the Holy Spirit; it is often this simple.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    1 Cor 10
    3 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness.
    This passage shows that God is awesomely powerful, among other things. There's zero mention of or connection with the (baptism of the) Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Acts 5
    10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

    Nothing to do with power coming, and then leaving.
    Also nothing to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, my friend.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    . . .
    Gal 3
    2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

    Gal 3
    3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
    Exactly, my brother. Like your list of required rules for receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. No offense intended, but surely they are a list of fleshly works; a demand for human effort required to earn God's blessing.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    However, the situation in your case is moot, you haven't even heard the Gospel, the job offer...
    No, I heard it and accepted it years ago, my friend. I just don't see the Bible agreeing with your list of requirements. Keeping faith during our trials is very important and necessary for our spiritual journey, absolutely, and thank you sincerely for the reminder. You just haven't demonstrated a biblical connection between them and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's all.

    But again, your summary of the life of a disciple is very good. Thank you for that, brother, and many Kingdom blessings on you!

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post


    Absolutely, my friend. It isn't related to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it's very true and important.

    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post


    Yes; on a temporary basis. As opposed to Jesus, and believers after Pentecost, who always have the Holy Spirit.

    Receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving the faith building, edifying ministry of the Holy Spirit, seen as being led into danger, to witness rescue, see cross and resurrection, see Christ, so that we can function in the Kingdom, where we will pick up the cross every day, and follow Jesus' example in being a light guiding the world to God, being a blessing to it in this Way:


    John 8
    56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”


    Genesis 12
    17But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram’s wife Sarai.


    Nehemiah 9
    15In their hunger you gave them bread from heaven and in their thirst you brought them water from the rock; you told them to go in and take possession of the land you had sworn with uplifted hand to give them.


    Matthew 4
    11Then the devil left Him, and angels came and ministered to Him.


    Acts 19
    6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.



    However, when checked to see if they had been edified by seeing suffering and rescue, Israel failed the test:

    1 Cor 10
    3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness.

    Acts 5
    10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

    Nothing to do with power coming, and then leaving.

    You see, we are told about a better job, working for treasure which does not rust or perish, with the possibility to get it, if we do a course, qualify and pass. However, we are too hurried in escaping the world/Egypt to read the fine print, do due diligence.

    How do we get into the course? By faith in Christ, being loyal to Christ:

    Gal 3
    2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?


    How do we pass the course? By faith in Christ, being loyal to Christ:


    Gal 3
    3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?


    Heb 6
    7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

    Don't be like Israel, like Chorazin, like Bethsaida...

    However, the situation in your case is moot, you haven't even heard the Gospel, the job offer...
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-27-2022, 11:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKC_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Needs also to be pointed out that the Israelites on the whole did not receive power, but there were notable exceptions to the general rule.
    Yes; on a temporary basis. As opposed to Jesus, and believers after Pentecost, who always have the Holy Spirit.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKC_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    God expected Israel to have had a different spirit.

    Only Caleb complied.

    The NT writers ask us not to be like Israel in the wilderness, but be like Caleb, Abraham and …Jesus!

    . . . Learn obedience from suffering!
    Absolutely, my friend. It isn't related to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but it's very true and important.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post
    Now you are equating very different things, brother.
    God expected Israel to have had a different spirit.


    Only Caleb complied.


    The NT writers ask us not to be like Israel in the wilderness, but be like Caleb, Abraham and …Jesus!


    Heb 5

    8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.




    It's so clear, obvious, the Exodus event is a foreshadowing, type of the ordo salutis:


    Heb 4

    1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. a 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,


    “So I declared on oath in my anger,


    ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ” b


    And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” c 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”


    6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:


    “Today, if you hear his voice,


    do not harden your hearts.” d


    8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

    ​​​​​​...

    The message they heard:

    Learn obedience from suffering!
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-27-2022, 11:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post

    Receive means to receive.

    And we see this very clearly at Pentecost and afterward. The disciples went from being fearful and doubting and wavering people, just like the Israelites in Exodus, to being bold and fearless. And having power to heal, speak in other languages, to speak out fearlessly, etc. But it wasn't from being rescued from anything or due to their great faith: they were still in the upper room and locking themselves in their lodgings from fear of the Jewish authorities.

    But then the Holy Spirit was poured out on them, just as Jesus said it would be.

    And just as Jesus said, they then suddenly had supernatural power and boldness.

    "You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you."
    Needs also to be pointed out that the Israelites on the whole did not receive power, but there were notable exceptions to the general rule.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKC_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    I repeat: God gave suffering to Abraham, Israel and Christ, so that they would see His rescues, and begin to trust in His ability and willingness to rescue them. . . .
    My friend, you keep repeating that this is the same as or related to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but repeating something doesn't make it true. Trusting God through suffering and trials is definitely very important, but you still haven't shown anywhere in the Bible where it states that this is in any way related to the baptism of the Holy Spirit or receiving the Holy Spirit.

    Your conclusion is simply an unproven assertion; merely repeating an assertion doesn't make it true. You need actual evidence and proof.

    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
    The text says the Exodus group tasted the powers of the world to come (Heb 6.5). Since they never healed anyone, [n]or fed anyone bread from heaven, the expression 'receiving power' means witnessing the rescuing power of God.

    So when Jesus told the disciples that they would receive power when the Holy Spirit fell on them, He meant they would see God's rescuing power
    Now you are equating very different things, brother.

    As tabibito has also pointed out, getting a taste of power, or seeing power being demonstrated, is not at all the same thing as receiving and having that power yourself.

    Not unless the receiving is a temporary, short-lived event: as when for example we say, "he got a taste of power and now he wants more."

    But we see from the Book of Acts and the Epistles that the power―and grace, guidance, wisdom, etc.―that was imparted to the apostles and disciples by the Holy Spirit was a permanent thing, and they actually had it. That's how they were able to turn the Roman Empire upside-down. And unlike with the Israelites, that power resided in them. The Israelites in the Exodus, on the other hand, as you point out, never healed anyone nor fed anyone bread from heaven. In other words, they clearly did not receive the power themselves―they merely witnessed God's power and benefited from it; they merely got a taste of it, as Paul says.

    Taste means to taste.

    Witness means to see but not do.

    Receive means to receive. They are very different things.

    And we see this very clearly at Pentecost and afterward. The disciples went from being fearful and doubting and wavering people, just like the Israelites in Exodus, to being bold and fearless. And having power to heal, speak in other languages, to speak out fearlessly, etc. But it wasn't from being rescued from anything or due to their great faith: they were still in the upper room and locking themselves in their lodgings from fear of the Jewish authorities.

    But then the Holy Spirit was poured out on them, just as Jesus said it would be.

    And just as Jesus said, they then suddenly had supernatural power and boldness.

    "You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you."
    Last edited by GKC_fan; 08-27-2022, 05:44 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    6Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.

    1. They heard the same Gospel, they saw the finger of God, the help of God.
    How strange then that Jesus should have said "If I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

    when Jesus told the disciples that they would receive power when the Holy Spirit fell on them, He meant they would see God's rescuing power and be edified.
    There is a significant difference between "receiving" and "seeing."
    but the kingdom of God is not a matter of words, but of power.

    Leave a comment:


  • GKC_fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Esther View Post
    Today I heard such a simple and wonderful truth. Jesus is God's gift to the world. The Holy Spirit is God's gift to the church!
    Hallelujah! And we couldn't do anything without them!

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post
    Brother, you just contradicted a clear and direct statement made by Jesus himself. "You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you."

    This is a very serious problem for any proposed theory or doctrine. Would you agree?//
    The text says the Exodus group tasted the powers of the world to come (Heb 6.5). Since they never healed anyone, or fed anyone bread from heaven, the expression 'receiving power' means witnessing the rescuing power of God.

    So Heb 6.4-6 means:

    4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age (the rescuing power of God) 6and who have fallen c away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

    So when Jesus told the disciples that they would receive power when the Holy Spirit fell on them, He meant they would see God's rescuing power and be edified. Tongues edify! Also seeing God rescuing also edified. Wasn't Abraham edified when he saw God rescue him from Pharaoh? Didn't it cause him to have a different spirit, like Caleb? Both became born again, changed from fearful followers to courageous leaders because of being edified by God and also because they remembered the rescues. Unlike the others who also saw the rescues, but forgot, allowed their fear to wipe out the memory of those rescues:

    Psalm 78
    11They forgot what He had done, the wonders He had shown them.

    Psalm 106
    21They forgot the God who saved them,
    who had done great things in Egypt,
    22miracles in the land of Ham
    and awesome deeds by the Red Sea.
    23So he said he would destroy them—
    had not Moses, his chosen one,
    stood in the breach before him
    to keep his wrath from destroying them.

    //Most or all of what you have said about faith, trusting God, and learning through suffering and trials and obedience is all true, of course. It's a huge part of our life on this earth and our spiritual progress and is very important for all disciples to know.

    But I see zero biblical support for your assertion that those things are in any way related to or necessary to receive the Holy Spirit.

    I repeat: God gave suffering to Abraham, Israel and Christ, so that they would see His rescues, and begin to trust in His ability and willingness to rescue them. They needed to be edified, have their trust built up, because in the Kingdom, they would be lights to the world, when they picked up crosses everyday and were rescued. Abraham, Caleb and Christ learned obedience from suffering, the rest of Israel did not. How did they receive the edifying ministry of the Holy Spirit? By stepping out of Egypt, by believing the Gospel, that there was a Land/Kingdom/Rest where they would be lights guiding to God, blessings to the world.

    John 9
    1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

    3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must doa the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

    I'm willing to pick up the cross, attempt great solutions, through the finger of God, as many times as you want to ask for signs, Biblical proof, but don't be like Chorazin and Bethsaida:

    Matt 11
    21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    //Where are the verses that clearly support your alleged connection between those different things? That's what I have to see.

    Not verses merely talking about faith and trials, but verses which show that those things are related to and necessary to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.//
    Remember, these are Jewish documents, and must be explained the Jewish way. Else Matthew would have been mistaken in seeing a virgin being mentioned when Isaiah was talking about a young wife, and Paul would have been mistaken in seeing the Law was Hagar. Instead, they used midrash, and it was not eisegesis:

    Quote
    (3) Drash or Midrash (“search”)—an allegorical or homiletical application of a text. This is a species of eisegesis—reading one’s own thoughts into the text—as opposed to exegesis, which is extracting from the text what it actually says. The implied presupposition is that the words of Scripture can legitimately become grist for the mill of human intellect, which God can guide to truths not directly related to the text at all.

    https://bible.org/article/hints-alle...ent-quotes-old

    //As Esther and NorrinRadd and tabibito and I have listed above, there are many crystal-clear verses and passages talking about and demonstrating how one receives/is baptized into the Holy Spirit.

    But I don't see any of those verses even mentioning your ideas, let alone agreeing with you. Quite the contrary. And as I pointed out, the example of Jesus being tempted―after he was baptized with the Holy Spirit―directly contradicts your proposed order of events.

    These things are all very strong evidence that your idea is incorrect.

    And now in support of your theory you are directly contradicting Jesus himself. ???
    1. Belief in the Gospel results in
    2. Receiving the Holy Spirit in turn results in
    3. Seeing suffering and rescue

    A. Remembering results in
    B. Being allowed into Rest.

    The text says these things happened to help us avoid Israel's mistakes:

    1 Cor 10
    1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

    6Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.


    1. They heard the same Gospel, they saw the finger of God, the help of God.
    2. Jesus repeated the Gospel after 1500 years, the disciples saw the finger of God, the help of God.

    As we do, today. Don't be like Israel! Be like Caleb. Have a different spirit! But first, hear the correct Gospel! Only then, when you believe it, will you be edified, by being given visions of suffering and rescue, cross and resurrection!


    Last edited by footwasher; 08-26-2022, 09:44 AM.

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