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What is the experience known as 'Receiving the Holy Spirit'?

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  • What is the experience known as 'Receiving the Holy Spirit'?

    Why do we need to receive the Holy Spirit?

    Conventional teaching says that we need to receive the Holy Spirit to confirm that we are saved. Which in turn means we can go to heaven. However, here's the thing. Many people have gone through the steps required to receive the Holy Spirit (believe in the lord Jesus) but they have no idea if they have really received the Spirit, because no one can agree what the signs of receiving Him are!


    For example, the majority of people have confessed that Jesus is the Saviour of mankind, and really believed the words (Why would it be otherwise? There was no cost, the benefits were huge, they were amongst friends, so there was no reason for their belief to be a lie). However, they never experienced what the people in Ephesus in Acts 19 experienced, speaking in tongues that strengthen faith, edify. Interestingly, those who baptise today's believers don't rule out the experience, EVEN IF THEY THEMSELVES HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED IT! The logic is that it occurs sometimes, although the occurrences can't be positively identified as the exact same experience as that of the Bible record.

    It may not be important to know if we have indeed been saved through an experiential encounter with the Holy Spirit, because the Bible says we can depend on the claim that those who believe in Jesus are saved. "All other things in the Bible are true, so why should this be different?" is the claim.


    But what if we aren't saved?

    What if we haven't indeed received the Holy Spirit?

    What if the reason we need to receive Him is not because it is positive confirmation that we are going to heaven, but because it is rain for the ground, required to produce vegetation? Food to strengthen faith?

    What if the purpose for creation is not to reach heaven, but to manifest righteousness?

    Don't gardeners grow plants because they love to see greenery, flowers, fruit? What if God created humanity so that He loves to see righteousness expressed? In making right choices, to have faith or not to have faith?

    When we read the instruction book for an appliance or a power tool, we need to do it to achieve a desired result. It's okay, if we need to make holes, to find out that we need a power drill, to buy one, and then read the instructions to achieve the results WE desire.


    What if we get instructions from a customer, to perform a service or provide goods, to be paid, and have no idea what the details are? And in our case, the situation of God being the Customer, and we being the Vendor, I'm afraid we are in that exact situation of not knowing even the basic details of what the contractor wants from the contractee.

    The conventional understanding is full of vague details, each of which can be challenged to be neither logical nor present in the Bible.

    The view goes like this:

    A. We are sinners who are going to a place where are sins will require our punishment, death.

    B. Jesus came to die for our sins, so that we don't have face death.

    C. This blessing can be received if we believe Jesus could, and did do what He claimed. He showed that it worked by rising up from the grave.

    D. The Holy Spirit is received when we believe, and experience of this state is proof that we are saved.

    E. However, even if we do not experience the receiving of the Holy Spirit, we can still believe we are saved, because that's what the Bible says.

    F. Now we can wait to pass from this life to a life in the world to come.


    The elements of the story can be placed in different configurations, to tell different stories. If we had a puzzle which is unlike a jigsaw in the sense that instead of having interlocking pieces we had square pieces which can be placed to form a picture of a white square on a black background, it may be possible to rearrange the pieces so that they form a picture of a white diamond on a black background!


    What if the pieces of the story of the Bible narrative is rearranged to say the following things:

    A. God placed people in different circumstances, to inform them that they lived lives resulting in gains that rusted and perished, hoping they would understand and turn to Him to save them from that same futility, because He is not far from them, being their Father.

    B. People understand and want a different life, a situation, land, country, kingdom to live in, so that their new lives result in gains that do NOT rust and perish.

    C. God is happy to be their God, because these believers are not shallow, shortsighted,only thinking of immediate gratification, and promises them a different country, situation, where gains indeed do not rust and perish, provided they have faith that He can bring them into that situation.

    D. People believe that God is able to bring them into that situation, and immediately God gives them experiences that teach them He can carry them through any situation without harm. This is called receiving the Holy Spirit, drinking from the Holy Spirit.

    E. Some people drink from the Holy Spirit, and profit from it. They gradually realise what God's plan is. He would give them difficult tasks to do, prepared in advance, so that the believers would walk in them. When believers picked up these tasks/crosses, but did not die/fail, but were lifted up, others would be drawn to God, since it becomes evident that the believers had God with them. This is what happened to Nicodemus. He was drawn to God, because he saw that God was with Jesus and enabled Him to be a light drawing others to God. He understood that this was how believers would be blessings to the world as promised to Abraham. In turn, being useful to God earned a reward of gains that were eternal, did not perish. The believer who had God with Him had an eternal type of life.

    F. However, not everyone who drank from the Spirit was automatically strengthened. Some drank, but did not profit from the experience. Ground that drinks but does not profit from it is rejected by God. This is because if we do not learn from the experience, we will be scared to pick up crosses and manifest God's rescuing work in our lives. And if we do not manifest that work, we will not be lights guiding others to God, others who also want to be lights and earn eternal rewards. That's why God tests to see if we have strengthened our faith like Abraham and Caleb, who passed, or strengthened our fear, like the rest of Israel, who failed and were not allowed to enter Rest.


    What makes this view more likely than the conventional one?


    As I mentioned in another thread, views need to have continuity with the Biblical record. They also need to be supported strongly, be repeatedly taught by that Biblical record. Is this view falling in the category of a strongly supported view?


    Abraham was unhappy with the revelation that his life was futile, like the rest of creation, which was also trapped in futility. Work resulted in gains that rusted and perished. God promised him a different situation, and his first instruction was to enter a new land. Abraham knew that the new land was not the situation God had actually promised, so he did not put down roots in it, preferring to behave like a nomad, someone in transit, in it.

    When Abraham believed God's claim to be able to bring him into a better situation, Abraham received the Holy Spirit, teaching that God could deliver. God put him in danger at the hands of King Abhimelek and Pharoah, and rescued him. After seeing God's rescue, Abraham stopped looking out for himself, and put himself totally in the hands of God.

    So when God asked him to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham unhesitatingly obeyed. He realised this was how the new situation of being a blessing to the world, leading to eternal gains, was going to be fulfilled. He would pick up a cross, God would lift him up from the earth, and others would be drawn to God. He really fully expected God to return Isaac back to him.

    Abraham passed the test to see if he had drank from the Holy Spirit and profited from it, had his faith strengthened. So did Caleb, in obeying to face the Canaanites in war.

    However, most of Israel did not similarly profit. Ground that drinks rain and does not produce vegetation is rejected by God. It is impossible to bring again to repentance those who experience the power of the world to come and reject the gift. Only Caleb changed, learned obedience from suffering, had had a different spirit, was born again, changed from a murmuring follower to an encouraging leader, was allowed to enter Rest, the situation where he could always pick up crosses and be lifted up, because God was with him.


    As you see, Abraham's and Caleb's experiences fully support the alternate view.

    An issue which needs to be highlighted is the matter of what receiving the Holy Spirit means.

    Would all agree that belief in God's ability to bring us into the Kingdom will result in Him giving us experiences that edify, strengthen our faith, because in the Kingdom we will be asked to pick up crosses everyday, so that when we are rescued, we will draw others to God, by being lights?

    Are we overcomplicating things just for the sake of academic interest?

    Or are we being judicious in checking instructions, maps, to ensure we achieve correct results, reach the right destinations?





  • #2
    A corollary lesson to the one above is the lesson about how God gives us crosses to pick up everyday, when we pass the test, and enter His Kingdom.

    God creates darkness, made Scripture dark, difficult to understand!

    God creates evil, problems, sicknesses!

    Remember, this is God's Way. He actually created problems, made Scripture dark (difficult to understand), made people sick, as opportunities for believers He gave gifting to, to reveal the Kingdom through doing great works of being light and healing:


    Is 45
    7I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.


    Ep 2
    10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


    John 9
    1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

    3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”


    John 11
    4When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.”

    John 3
    1Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

    3Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.



    1 Cor 14
    23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
    Last edited by footwasher; 06-06-2022, 02:18 PM.

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    • #3
      What if the reason we need to receive Him is not because it is positive confirmation that we are going to heaven, but because it is rain for the ground, required to produce vegetation? Food to strengthen faith?

      Exactly. And even more!

      As someone who grew up in a non-charismatic evangelical church, I was taught this traditional view of the Holy Spirit and the baptism: that it's simply a positive confirmation that we are going to heaven. A tragically shallow and neutered view, I would now say. As someone else said of their similar upbringing, "Of course we believed in the Holy Spirit . . . because the Bible says he exists. But for all practical purposes, we didn't really. For all practical purposes our Trinity wasn't the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but rather the Father, Son, and the Holy Bible."

      This was my upbringing as well.

      Yet Jesus makes it very clear how powerful and vital the Holy Spirit is in our life.

      He will guide you into all truth; You will receive power [from him...to be] my witnesses (Acts 1:8).

      So according to Jesus, without the baptism of the Holy Spirit we will have very little or no power, and we won't have access to all the crucial truth that we need in this life.

      And we see the resulting power right there in the gospels and Acts.

      The disciples and apostles went from being very fearful, foolish, and unfruitful disciples before Pentecost (knuckleheads really, much of the time ;-> ), to fearless and powerful disciples who turned the world upside down. The same goes for the wisdom He gives us. Without the Holy Spirit we can't even understand basic biblical truths, much less deeper truths: "the natural mind cannot understand the things of God." We see this also in the lives of the disciples.
      Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! . . .

      When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished!


      The difference was the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now they were fully yielded and open and available to the Holy Spirit, so He was able to speak and act through them much more fully.

      And I can tell you the same from my personal experience. My experience also shows that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is far more than merely speaking in tongues (although I do now see how incredibly powerful and valuable tongues are), because I didn't receive the ability to speak in tongues for over two years after my baptism in the Holy Spirit. (Which for me was a baptism in the Father's love. Wow! Trust me, you want that!)

      But I wanted to be certain that my experience with tongues was genuine, so I asked the Lord to give it to me supernaturally and I refused to let people pressure me into trying to make it happen: "just start making sounds." No. And so He did, hallelujah!

      The other thing I would say is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is actually or also more of a greater infilling and outflow. Every believer receives the Holy Spirit, just as the disciples did in the upper room when Jesus breathed on them. But the baptism requires a deeper and deliberate surrender to the Holy Spirit, just as we need to intentionally and actively accept Jesus as Lord as well as savior. A believer who is born again but hasn't yielded their will to the Lord is a very different person from someone who is actively and intentionally asking and allowing Jesus to run their life.

      So . . . if you haven't yet been baptized in the Holy Spirit, let me assure you, as a former anti-charismatic: you need it! And you'll be so glad you did! :-)


      What if the purpose for creation is not to reach heaven, but to manifest righteousness?

      Amen! And to help spread the Kingdom and the good news of the Kingdom.
      Last edited by GKC_fan; 08-21-2022, 12:05 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptised in/with the Holy Spirit are two separate events.

        1. In John 20:20 Jesus as the resurrected Saviour breathed on the disciples and said receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:22

        22 And having said this, He breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit!

        Up to this point the disciples were not yet born again because Jesus had not yet resurrected from the dead. This is an initial receiving of the Holy Spirit in order to be born again.


        2. Then there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is receiving power from the Holy Spirit essential for witnessing and service. (What took place in the upper room in the book of Acts where about 120 disciples were gathered together).

        Luke 24:49:
        49 And behold, I will send forth upon you what My Father has promised; but remain in the city [Jerusalem] until you are clothed with power from on high.

        Acts 1:4-5:

        4 And while being in their company and eating with them, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait for what the Father had promised, Of which [He said] you have heard Me speak.

        5 For John baptized with water, but not many days from now you shall be baptized with ([a]placed in, introduced into) the Holy Spirit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post
          The disciples and apostles went from being very fearful, foolish, and unfruitful disciples before Pentecost (knuckleheads really, much of the time ;-> ), to fearless and powerful disciples who turned the world upside down. The same goes for the wisdom He gives us. Without the Holy Spirit we can't even understand basic biblical truths, much less deeper truths: "the natural mind cannot understand the things of God." We see this also in the lives of the disciples.
          Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! . . .

          When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished!
          .
          Please reflect on your post.

          Receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, because in the Kingdom, where the Spirit enables the performance of great works, we need courage to attempt great works, so that we can reveal God's involvement, finger, in those works, and be a light guiding others to Him.

          This is proved, seen, in how Abraham received the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, and then was able to show his new faith, when asked to sacrifice Isaac.

          Similarly, Caleb was also able to show that new faith when asked to face the enemy army.

          Israel failed the test. Just google: 'they forgot' God's great works'.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Esther View Post
            Receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptised in/with the Holy Spirit are two separate events.
            Please reflect on your post.

            Receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, when God reveals His ability and willingness to rescue from problems, because in the Kingdom, where the Spirit enables the performance of great works, we need courage to attempt great works, so that we can reveal God's involvement, finger, in those works, and be a light guiding others to Him.

            This is proved, seen, in how Abraham received the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, and then was able to show his new faith, when asked to sacrifice Isaac.

            Similarly, Caleb was also able to show that new faith when asked to face the enemy army.

            Israel failed the test. Just google: 'they forgot' God's great works'.

            ​​​​​​Hebrews 6
            7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.
            Last edited by footwasher; 08-21-2022, 06:02 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by footwasher View Post

              Please reflect on your post.

              Receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, because in the Kingdom, where the Spirit enables the performance of great works, we need courage to attempt great works, so that we can reveal God's involvement, finger, in those works, and be a light guiding others to Him.

              This is proved, seen, in how Abraham received the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, and then was able to show his new faith, when asked to sacrifice Isaac.

              Similarly, Caleb was also able to show that new faith when asked to face the enemy army.

              Israel failed the test. Just google: 'they forgot' God's great works'.
              Please reflect on your dual posts.

              Surely you are asserting with certitude that which is at best speculative and inferential. Nothing in any text I've found links Abraham's obedient faith to the Holy Spirit. Num. 14:24 could possibly be interpreted that way in regard to Caleb, but it is far from explicit.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                Receiving the Holy Spirit is receiving the faith-strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit . . .
                Hi footwasher; thank you for your comments.

                The Bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit's ministry is much, much more than only strengthening our faith, important as that is.
                • He is the Comforter,
                • the Encourager,
                • "the Spirit who gives life" (Rom. 8:2),
                • and "streams of living water" (John 7:38),
                • the one who will guide us into all truth (John 16:13),
                • the one who knows the depths of our mind and heart as well as the mind and heart of the Father (1 Cor. 2:9-13), and
                • the giver of supernatural peace (Rom. 8:6).
                • As mentioned, he's the one who can give us the supernatural power, the grace, to do all the things we need to do but can't do on our own. (Giving us supernatural boldness and faith is one part of that, but only one small part.)
                • He's the source or conduit of the supernatural love, joy, patience, kindness, self-control, etc. that we all need so desperately in this life.
                All these things, not only faith, are crucial for us to be successful in walking out our God-ordained destinies on this earth.

                So thank you, Holy Spirit!
                Last edited by GKC_fan; 08-21-2022, 09:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post

                  Hi footwasher; thank you for your comments.

                  The Bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit's ministry is much, much more than only strengthening our faith, important as that is.
                  • He is the Comforter,
                  • the Encourager,
                  • "the Spirit who gives life" (Rom. 8:2),
                  • and "streams of living water" (John 7:38),
                  • the one who will guide us into all truth (John 16:13),
                  • the one who knows the depths of our mind and heart as well as the mind and heart of the Father (1 Cor. 2:9-13), and
                  • the giver of supernatural peace (Rom. 8:6).
                  • As mentioned, he's the one who can give us the supernatural power, the grace, to do all the things we need to do but can't do on our own. (Giving us supernatural boldness and faith is one part of that, but only one small part.)
                  • He's the source or conduit of the supernatural love, joy, patience, kindness, self-control, etc. that we all need so desperately in this life.
                  All these things, not only faith, are crucial for us to be successful in walking out our God-ordained destinies on this earth.

                  So thank you, Holy Spirit!
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                  Please reflect on your dual posts.

                  Surely you are asserting with certitude that which is at best speculative and inferential. Nothing in any text I've found links Abraham's obedient faith to the Holy Spirit. Num. 14:24 could possibly be interpreted that way in regard to Caleb, but it is far from explicit.
                  Please note the exact sequence experienced by Abraham, Caleb and Jesus:

                  Believe that the Promised Land/Kingdom of God has come amongst men Received revelation from the Holy Spirit, demonstration of saving from evil
                  Tested to see if they believe God always rescue from evil
                  Passed the test, and set up for entry into the Kingdom, like a pool ball is set up near a pocket.

                  From this we know this is how the Holy Spirit is received.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Brother, that is an interesting human concoction! As many human concoctions and theories do, it looks good, and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom. ;->

                    But instead of attempting to extrapolate and divine from obscure passages (obscure concerning the Holy Spirit), with the huge likelihood of human error that such a technique always and intrinsically involves, it's much simpler and secure to first see what the non-obscure passages say. Especially since one of those passages (John 7:39) says that the Holy Spirit wasn't even given before Jesus―thus saying that Abraham and Caleb had not even experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

                    So here are some plain and clear statements from the New Testament, the Age of the Holy Spirit:
                    • He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."
                    • Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
                    • [The apostles] prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. . . . Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
                    • On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
                    Also, the disciples at Pentecost didn't meet your list of requirements, except #1.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post
                      Especially since one of those passages (John 7:39) says that the Holy Spirit wasn't even given before Jesus―thus saying that Abraham and Caleb had not even experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
                      The first mention of the Spirit in the Bible:

                      Gen 1
                      2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the earth.

                      ​​​​​
                      Also, the disciples at Pentecost didn't meet your list of requirements, except #1.
                      First edification, strengthening of faith:

                      1 Sam 10
                      5“After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, timbrels, pipes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. 6The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.


                      The sequence seen in the disciples at Pentecost:

                      1. Believed that the Promised Land/Kingdom of God has come amongst men- Check. Lk 11.20

                      2. Received the Holy Spirit, ie. revelation from the Holy Spirit, demonstration of saving from evil- Check. Jn 9.1-5

                      3. Tested to see if they believed God always rescued from evil-Check. Acts 2.14-41.

                      4. Passed the test, and set up for entry into the Kingdom, like a pool ball is set up near a pocket. Check. Acts 2.44-47.
                      Last edited by footwasher; 08-22-2022, 08:31 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        footwasher I like the simplicity of the NT teachings of Christ and the practical daily ways we can implement them. The NT sets a pattern and example for us born again believers in Christ. For example:

                        What does it mean to be born again?

                        When we are born the first time, it is a physical birth from our mothers.
                        When we get born again, it is a spiritual birth from heaven.

                        How do we get born again?

                        We get born again by placing our belief/faith/trust in the Bible's story of Jesus' birth, death and resurrection.

                        Then what? We are to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit for witness and service.

                        Over-complicating these simple, vital truths will end up in overloading people unnecessarily with burdens and yokes the Lord never intended us to carry. We are to enter His rest, His ease, His burden is light we come to Him all we who labour and are weary...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So true, Esther.

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Originally posted by Esther View Post
                            footwasher I like the simplicity of the NT teachings of Christ and the practical daily ways we can implement them.

                            The NT sets a pattern and example for us born again believers in Christ.
                            You are right that NT sets a pattern, but more importantly, all Scripture sets that pattern, because first, we have continuity from the OT to the NT, and second, multiple instances of that pattern means confirmation of its meaning.

                            For example:
                            What does it mean to be born again?

                            When we are born the first time, it is a physical birth from our mothers.

                            When we get born again, it is a spiritual birth from heaven.
                            Not really. When we get born again, it is a birth originated from changing, having had a different mindset, meta noia, because of responding correctly to the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, in creating problems, crosses, and being rescued by God, resurrection. We see God creating problems for Abraham, Israel and Jesus, when they believe the Gospel, that the world is not their real home, but a different Land/Country/Kingdom is. Their belief is seen in coming out of their worldly homes/Egypt. The Holy Spirit leads them into the wilderness, and creates problems like hunger and thirst, and then rescues them. See what happens when they are exposed to suffering and rescue:

                            Heb 5
                            8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered.

                            When tested, they showed they had learnt. Unlike Israel's response in the wilderness, and in Chorazin and Bethsaida (Google 'they forgot God's great rescues', if you don't believe me):

                            Ps 78
                            11They forgot what he had done,
                            the wonders he had shown them.
                            12He did miracles in the sight of their ancestors
                            in the land of Egypt, in the region of Zoan.
                            13He divided the sea and led them through;
                            ...

                            I repeat, how we are born again, and how we are not:

                            Heb 4
                            For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.

                            Heb 6
                            7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

                            It's important to get this right, do due diligence, because if we do not hear property, that the Kingdom is near, and we can enter by passing a test to see if we are born again, changed by receiving and believing this good news, we run the risk of not being saved. Did you receive the Holy Spirit. No. Because you heard a different Gospel. You filled up the wrong application form.

                            How do we get born again?
                            We get born again by placing our belief/faith/trust in the Bible's story of Jesus' birth, death and resurrection.
                            Again, not really. We get born again by seeing different examples of being put into danger and being rescued. This increases , or should increase our faith in God's ability and willingness to always rescue. Only Abraham, Caleb and Jesus passed the test to see if they had had a different spirit:

                            Numbers 14
                            20“I have pardoned them as you requested,” the LORD replied. 21“Yet as surely as I live and as surely as the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD, 22not one of the men who have seen My glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet have tested Me and disobeyed Me these ten times— 23not one will ever see the land that I swore to give their fathers. None of those who have treated Me with contempt will see it.

                            24But because My servant Caleb has a different spirit and has followed Me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he has entered, and his descendants will inherit it.


                            Of course, you obviously haven't been tested, because you haven't received the real offer.

                            Then what? We are to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit for witness and service.
                            I repeat, we are baptised into the ministry of Moses/Christ, demonstration of cross and resurrection in the wilderness, when we believe we have to come out of Egypt, because God can deliver us into the Kingdom. We show this belief by remembering the rescues God performs in the Holy Spirit experience. Even the believers in Ephesus in Acts 19 were given a concentrated dose of seeing rescue, and could be edified, because tongues edify the speaker.

                            Over-complicating these simple, vital truths will end up in overloading people unnecessarily with burdens and yokes the Lord never intended us to carry. We are to enter His rest, His ease, His burden is light we come to Him all we who labour and are weary…
                            You need to follow instructions, no matter how complicated they are, if you want to use that new blender you bought for your kitchen. Rest is the desired result to be reached, the destination, the harbour the ship was meant to berth at, the runway the plane was supposed to land on. The burden is light, compared to what God's people had to endure, oppressed by the Slavemaster, Law…
                            Last edited by footwasher; 08-22-2022, 10:27 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GKC_fan View Post
                              So true, Esther.
                              Why did God create problems for Abraham, Caleb and Jesus?

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