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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Doctrines that Destroy lives

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  • #16
    You might be a tare if; your teaching helps destroy, a marriage.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dave L View Post
      You might be a tare if; your teaching helps destroy, a marriage.
      You might be a Pharisee if; you have an ongoing tendency to jump to nutty conclusions that cause you to accuse others of something they're not actually doing.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        I'll start a new thread when allowed to do so. Did you know everything you think say or do is based on a reason God sent to control your will?
        Why bother sending me a reason if he is already controlling what I think? If I am just God's puppet he can just make me do whatever he wants to without a reason. Why do I have a will in the first place? Do characters in a video game you control have a will? That seems to be basically what you think we are to God, just characters in some huge game he is playing.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Why bother sending me a reason if he is already controlling what I think? If I am just God's puppet he can just make me do whatever he wants to without a reason. Why do I have a will in the first place? Do characters in a video game you control have a will? That seems to be basically what you think we are to God, just characters in some huge game he is playing.
          You are carelessly placing yourself in God's position. You think you call the shots. He determines the end from the beginning which proves he controls everything concerning you. good or bad. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)

          “O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” Jeremiah 10:23 (KJV 1900)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            You are carelessly placing yourself in God's position. You think you call the shots. He determines the end from the beginning which proves he controls everything concerning you. good or bad. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)

            “O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” Jeremiah 10:23 (KJV 1900)
            Well if I 'carelessly place myself in God's position and think I call the shots, then that must be what God wants me to do, right? Once again you shoot your own condemnation of me in the foot.

            How about you try answering me?

            Why bother sending me a reason if he is already controlling what I think? If I am just God's puppet he can just make me do whatever he wants to without a reason. Why do I have a will in the first place? Do characters in a video game you control have a will? That seems to be basically what you think we are to God, just characters in some huge game he is playing

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Well if I 'carelessly place myself in God's position and think I call the shots, then that must be what God wants me to do, right? Once again you shoot your own condemnation of me in the foot.

              How about you try answering me?

              Why bother sending me a reason if he is already controlling what I think? If I am just God's puppet he can just make me do whatever he wants to without a reason. Why do I have a will in the first place? Do characters in a video game you control have a will? That seems to be basically what you think we are to God, just characters in some huge game he is playing
              You always do what God planned for you. Even if it leads to Hell.

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              • #22
                Ding Dong

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  You always do what God planned for you. Even if it leads to Hell.
                  So why does God bother giving me reasons if he already controls what I think and do? Why do I even "think" at all? If we are just puppets we don't need to think.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    So why does God bother giving me reasons if he already controls what I think and do? Why do I even "think" at all? If we are just puppets we don't need to think.
                    God uses you for his glory. If he saves you it glorifies his mercy. If he damns you, it glorifies his goodness and wrath.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      God uses you for his glory. If he saves you it glorifies his mercy. If he damns you, it glorifies his goodness and wrath.
                      There is no glory in making puppets do things. Why won't you actually answer my questions? Is it because you know you are wrong and have no answer?

                      Why does God bother giving me reasons if he already controls what I think and do? Why do I even "think" at all?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                        You are carelessly placing yourself in God's position.
                        irony meter.jpg

                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          There is no glory in making puppets do things. Why won't you actually answer my questions? Is it because you know you are wrong and have no answer?

                          Why does God bother giving me reasons if he already controls what I think and do? Why do I even "think" at all?
                          He uses creation, including you, to reveal his attributes to the heavenly beings. No sin, no mercy. No sin, now sovereignty. No sin, no wrath, etc. It's not about you, it's about God. Read Paul and see if you can grasp it.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                            Many solve crimes by following the money. But how do we find the Tares among the wheat? Jesus says the Tares or false Christians cause others to sin and do evil (Matthew 13:41). So instead of following the money, I follow the path of destruction in the doctrine’s wake.

                            “The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10)
                            So an easy way to challenge any suspect doctrine is to ask “Does the teaching cause sin and destroy lives? Or does it promote holiness and strengthen lives?
                            Sure. Let's examine hyper-Calvinism through this lens. Any teaching which denies free will teaches that one can't repent and change one's life for the better, causing whoever hears it to keep on doing the same bad things they've always been doing instead of turning to Christ. Nice own goal there, Dave.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                              He uses creation, including you, to reveal his attributes to the heavenly beings. No sin, no mercy. No sin, now sovereignty. No sin, no wrath, etc. It's not about you, it's about God. Read Paul and see if you can grasp it.
                              Your version of God is an egomaniac who creates puppets and then thinks by making them do various things it glorifies him. How does a puppet glorify anything? And who is there to appreciate this glory if everything he makes is just a puppet?

                              If I create a video game and make some video game characters pray to me while I make others do horrendous thing to other characters how does that glorify me? And not only do you think God is doing that but you also think he made us conscious all the while controlling our thoughts and actions. Your idea of God is not a glorious being, but a megalomaniacal psychopathic monster. And you think God is making me think this about him

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Sure. Let's examine hyper-Calvinism through this lens. Any teaching which denies free will teaches that one can't repent and change one's life for the better, causing whoever hears it to keep on doing the same bad things they've always been doing instead of turning to Christ. Nice own goal there, Dave.
                                You are not well versed in Calvinism. But since it describes God, and can reflect your hatred for God if Calvin was right. It's best to hit the books and not speak from ignorance.

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