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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Decisional Regeneration?

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  • #61
    Let's say you were unconscious, but once the paramedic gets you to wake up, you could withdraw consent for further treatment and die or consent to further treatment and live. Everyone was unconscious, but let's say the emergency responder is miraculously able to make them conscious just long enough for them to respond favorably or not. And it need not be a one time deal. It could be a process.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment

    • #62
      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
      Let's say you were unconscious, but once the paramedic gets you to wake up, you could withdraw consent for further treatment and die or consent to further treatment and live. Everyone was unconscious, but let's say the emergency responder is miraculously able to make them conscious just long enough for them to respond favorably or not. And it need not be a one-time deal. It could be a process.
      It doesn't work this way. It's more like the person is dead. and the responder shows up totally helpless. But God intervenes and raises the person from the dead, giving him a new heart that loves God.

      Comment

      • #63
        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        You turn believing into salvation by works. Believing is an effect of Being saved. It is not the cause of it. Which you make it out to be.
        Why do you bother posting these threads at all? If we are only doing and believing what God wants us to believe, then you are not going to change our minds, after all changing your mind requires free will. And what we believe is what God wants us to believe so you are arguing against God himself. Which requires you have free will. So you are defeating your own argument.

        • 2 likes

        Comment

        • #64
          Originally posted by Dave L View Post

          If you were free, you wouldn't have a struggle between flesh (not free) and Spirit.
          Are you saying your spirit has free will?

          Comment

          • #65
            Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            It doesn't work this way. It's more like the person is dead. and the responder shows up totally helpless. But God intervenes and raises the person from the dead, giving him a new heart that loves God.
            The first responder is the Holy Spirit. Duh.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment

            • #66
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              Why do you bother posting these threads at all? If we are only doing and believing what God wants us to believe, then you are not going to change our minds, after all changing your mind requires free will. And what we believe is what God wants us to believe so you are arguing against God himself. Which requires you have free will. So you are defeating your own argument.
              We are to preach the true gospel to the elect (already saved) to direct them into the truth. So It's a dirty job in places like this but someone has to do it.

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                We are to preach the true gospel to the elect (already saved) to direct them into the truth. So It's a dirty job in places like this but someone has to do it.
                How can you direct anyone anywhere if there is no free will? If there is no free will then everyone is just a puppet doing and thinking what God wants them to believe and your arguments can make no more difference than a gnat trying to stop an charging elephant. Your arguing is useless. If God wants me to believe the same as you then he would have already made me believe that. Your arguing with me won't change what I believe until God changes my mind. I am only believing what God wants me to believe so you are arguing against God, not me.

                • 1 like

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  How can you direct anyone anywhere if there is no free will? If there is no free will then everyone is just a puppet doing and thinking what God wants them to believe and your arguments can make no more difference than a gnat trying to stop an charging elephant. Your arguing is useless. If God wants me to believe the same as you then he would have already made me believe that. Your arguing with me won't change what I believe until God changes my mind. I am only believing what God wants me to believe so you are arguing against God, not me.
                  Whether Satan controls you or God controls you, you cannot even control your tongue according to James.

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    Let's say you were unconscious, but once the paramedic gets you to wake up, you could withdraw consent for further treatment and die or consent to further treatment and live. Everyone was unconscious, but let's say the emergency responder is miraculously able to make them conscious just long enough for them to respond favorably or not. And it need not be a one time deal. It could be a process.
                    Seems a reasonable analogy for preaching the gospel to me.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      So you think Satan is as powerful as God? Mind controlling people sounds more like Satan if he were even able to do that. Like the creepy brain in A Wrinkle in Time.
                      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                        If you were free, you could make your flesh sinless.
                        Then why couldn't the Apostle Paul?

                        For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice (Romans 7:19).
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson
                        • 2 likes

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                          Whether Satan controls you or God controls you, you cannot even control your tongue according to James.
                          If there is no free will then Satan has no free will either. God controls everything and everyone. You can't even blame Satan for his evil since he is only doing what God makes him do.

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                            Then why couldn't the Apostle Paul?

                            For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice (Romans 7:19).
                            Short answer: That condition applies only for as long as a person is in the flesh, a condition that continues for some time after accepting Christ as lord. And then comes Romans 8:9
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              Short answer: That condition applies only for as long as a person is in the flesh, a condition that continues for some time after accepting Christ as lord. And then comes Romans 8:9
                              Precisely. Our flesh is still slave to sin, so Dave's idiotic one liner is easily dismissed by scripture. There is a war between our sinful flesh and our free spirit.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Does anybody else seem to think that discussing things with Dave is like discussing things with the Mormons.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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