Decisional Regeneration?

[Dave L]

It still doesn't change the truth of scripture itself.




Absolutely not. Your twisted Calvinism is the only way you can get that out of the scriptures.

Many fail to grasp the meaning of scripture. It only proves they wrestle it to their own destruction.

[tabibito]

But it falls on deaf ears unless God first saves you.

A person who is dead in his sins is NOT saved, yet people believe the gospel while they are yet dead in their sins. They believe before they are saved, while they are still dead in their sins. Even if the nonsense that there are two kinds of belief is accepted, it is by this so called "flesh belief" that they believe - and it is that belief by which they are granted the opportunity to be saved.

[Dave L]

A person who is dead in his sins is NOT saved, yet people believe the gospel while they are yet dead in their sins. They believe before they are saved, while they are still dead in their sins. Even if the nonsense that there are two kinds of belief is accepted, it is by this so called "flesh belief" that they believe - and it is that belief by which they are granted the opportunity to be saved.

That is why you must be born again before you can believe.

[Bill the Cat]

Many fail to grasp the meaning of scripture. It only proves they wrestle it to their own destruction.

Like Calvin.

[Dave L]

Like Calvin.

Now there's a challenge for you. Try to prove Him wrong on sin and grace. What if he is right. Imagine how many people hate God as he defines him. And worship an idol instead. = Most in the churches are not saved.

[tabibito]

That is why you must be born again before you can believe.

As elsewhere, so also here.
Whether to believe you or to believe scripture?
So very not a quandary.

[Cow Poke]

Do you think only believers use scripture?

David Koresh certainly used it, and you're sounding a lot like him ---- "you have it all wrong, only I can teach you how it works".

Dave, you seem to constantly be trying to put carts before horses, and straining at gnats, and delving into legalism.

[Cow Poke]

Let's say you are correct, so what? The result is the same, they are saved, even if they might think that they were saved by their "decision" at the altar call. If you are correct then the altar call is just a meaningless ceremony that doesn't save them, but they are still saved none the less. There has to be a point where the person confesses to follow Jesus publicly if he is truly saved.

Matthew 10:32

I use the altar call, but I don't intend it primarily for people to "get saved". To me, we should be witnessing during the week, and the "altar call" is that time when we bring our new brothers and sisters to meet their family, and they get to publicly profess Christ.

Or, it's a time when somebody can ask for prayer, or share a concern.

[Bill the Cat]

Now there's a challenge for you. Try to prove Him wrong on sin and grace. What if he is right. Imagine how many people hate God as he defines him. And worship an idol instead. = Most in the churches are not saved.

Been there done that. Calvin's TULIP is a rotted flower that came about a dozen centuries after the early church. Free will litters the writings of the early church leaders. It is the historic scriptural position.

[Cow Poke]

Been there done that. Calvin's TULIP is a rotted flower that came about a dozen centuries after the early church. Free will litters the writings of the early church leaders. It is the historic scriptural position.

I would use "flows from" rather than "litters".

[Bill the Cat]

I would use "flows from" rather than "litters".

Good point. Multitasking FTW!!!

[Dave L]

Been there done that. Calvin's TULIP is a rotted flower that came about a dozen centuries after the early church. Free will litters the writings of the early church leaders. It is the historic scriptural position.

The Catholics center their salvation scheme on free will. ALL of the Reformers proved it wrong. Read Luther's Bondage of the Will and learn a few things about it.

[Cow Poke]

The Catholics center their salvation scheme on free will.

I don't think you can really say that -- they have the "hope" of Salvation, but so much of it is dependent on their Church. They certainly don't seem to be able to express any "assurance" of Salvation.

[Bill the Cat]

The Catholics center their salvation scheme on free will. ALL of the Reformers proved it wrong. Read Luther's Bondage of the Will and learn a few things about it.

Luther isn't an Apostle or Bible author. And I frankly could not care less what Catholics do. They aren't the original church.

[Sparko]

Do you think only believers use scripture? Many use it just as witches use chants and omens thinking they can control God. Are you not trying to control God into saving you by reciting Romans 10:10?

You tell us to use scripture to prove what we are saying and when we do you accuse us of using scripture as witchcraft to control God?



Dave, I am thinking you are a Pharisee. Or maybe the elevator doesn't reach to top floor.

The problem with your theology is that if indeed God controls our every thought and action as you believe then everything we are doing is God's will and that means you are arguing against God, not us. Or to be even more specific, it means that God is arguing through you with God speaking through us. You make God into a schizophrenic monster who not only authors sin and then punishes those who are just doing what he wants, but then argues with himself about it.