Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Decisional Regeneration?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Decisional Regeneration?

    What about Billy Graham? Charles Finney? And today’s popular “alter call” approach to the Gospel?

    Jesus said, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

    First, Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. So at what point does salvation happen? If God saved them, it would have been in eternity for it to be eternal life. They would have experienced this salvation when they first believed according to Jesus. This would be before they responded to the altar call. They would have obviously believed or they would not have followed the altar call.

    The problem happens when the preacher leads them to believe in "Decisional Regeneration" as the savior. This is much like the Catholic’s "baptismal regeneration". It's the same principle. So the damage amounts to shifting them away from faith in Christ and salvation which they already had before going forward. Into saving themselves by going forward and deciding to believe, which they already did or they would not have gone forward. So while many were no doubt saved when they believed enough to "go forward", the false “decision-based” gospel directed their faith back into themselves as the savior. Thinking they met the conditions of a gospel Billy turned into law and grace into works. They are still saved, but horribly confused.

  • #2
    Let's say you are correct, so what? The result is the same, they are saved, even if they might think that they were saved by their "decision" at the altar call. If you are correct then the altar call is just a meaningless ceremony that doesn't save them, but they are still saved none the less. There has to be a point where the person confesses to follow Jesus publicly if he is truly saved.

    Matthew 10:32





    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Let's say you are correct, so what? The result is the same, they are saved, even if they might think that they were saved by their "decision" at the altar call. If you are correct then the altar call is just a meaningless ceremony that doesn't save them, but they are still saved none the less. There has to be a point where the person confesses to follow Jesus publicly if he is truly saved.

      Matthew 10:32



      Saved but deceived into believing in a false gospel. And misleading any they witness to. They are bound by works totally missing the grace experience.

      Comment


      • #4
        Romans 10
        9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
        10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          Romans 10
          9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
          10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
          This is kin to a witchcraft chant if you think it will save you. If you are saved, you will do this knowing that you are saved.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dave L View Post

            This is kin to a witchcraft chant if you think it will save you. If you are saved, you will do this knowing that you are saved.
            The pontifical announcement: Scripture endorses witchcraft.
            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              Saved but deceived into believing in a false gospel. And misleading any they witness to. They are bound by works totally missing the grace experience.
              Why does that matter? As you keep claiming, it is God's will. Who are you to argue with God's will? Actually, how ARE you arguing with God's will if you are bound to only do God's will? Is God schizophrenic? Does he argue against himself?


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                The pontifical announcement: Scripture endorses witchcraft.
                People use scripture the same way witches use chants and omens. The Word of Faith does this all the time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  People use scripture the same way witches use chants and omens. The Word of Faith does this all the time.
                  Romans 10:10 denies that faith saves. What are you rabbiting on about?
                  1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Romans 10:10 denies that faith saves. What are you rabbiting on about?
                    I said you must already be saved BEFORE you can have biblical faith.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      This is kin to a witchcraft chant if you think it will save you. If you are saved, you will do this knowing that you are saved.
                      So scripture is now witchcraft. You're on a roll today Dave.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                        So scripture is now witchcraft. You're on a roll today Dave.
                        Do you think only believers use scripture? Many use it just as witches use chants and omens thinking they can control God. Are you not trying to control God into saving you by reciting Romans 10:10?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                          I said you must already be saved BEFORE you can have biblical faith.
                          So before you can have Biblical faith you must be saved. Interesting. People believe the gospel while they are still dead in their sins, according to Paul
                          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            So before you can have Biblical faith you must be saved. Interesting. People believe the gospel while they are still dead in their sins, according to Paul
                            But it falls on deaf ears unless God first saves you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                              Do you think only believers use scripture? Many use it just as witches use chants and omens thinking they can control God.
                              It still doesn't change the truth of scripture itself.


                              Are you not trying to control God into saving you by reciting Romans 10:10?
                              Absolutely not. Your twisted Calvinism is the only way you can get that out of the scriptures.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Dave L, 01-14-2022, 06:35 AM
                              53 responses
                              276 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post One Bad Pig  
                              Started by Dave L, 01-12-2022, 12:37 PM
                              41 responses
                              226 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by Ronson, 01-11-2022, 03:23 PM
                              99 responses
                              509 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post footwasher  
                              Started by Dave L, 01-11-2022, 05:58 AM
                              116 responses
                              432 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by Dave L, 01-10-2022, 12:25 PM
                              48 responses
                              226 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post KingsGambit  
                              Working...
                              X