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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    There is a difference in promising a future vacation and eternal life. Eternal life means you will never die (not talking about physical death but spiritual). If you have that promise then you can't somehow walk away from it because if you do then the promise is meaningless. If Jesus told me that I have or will have eternal life and he KNOWS I will turn away next week, then he would be lying to me now because he knows I will not remain in the faith.

    John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish."

    Either that statement is true "they shall never perish" or it isn't. If I give my life to Jesus now and accept him as my savior he says I have eternal life and shall never perish. How can I then turn away and become an atheist without making him a liar? The only way I can reconcile it is that even if I think I have walked away from him, I still belong to him if I genuinely gave him my life. I might think I am an atheist, but I will still be saved in the end because I still belong to Jesus. I just probably won't hear "well done, good and faithful servant"
    All I see you saying here is that you don't believe the warnings about apostasy to be true...so, don't worry, be happy?

    Or, you agree with DaveL and other Calvinists that "my sheep" are those individuals predestined by God from the very beginning for eternal life. Using your logic, God knows before he ever creates a being whether they will ever be his sheep or not. So, God truly creates people he knows will reject him and are bound for eternal punishment. Correct? therefore, There is no Free Will, you are predestined to believe.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      He walks alone
      Maybe we could introduce him to Mickiel, and they could walk together!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post

        All I see you saying here is that you don't believe the warnings about apostasy to be true...so, don't worry, be happy?

        Or, you agree with DaveL and other Calvinists that "my sheep" are those individuals predestined by God from the very beginning for eternal life. Using your logic, God knows before he ever creates a being whether they will ever be his sheep or not. So, God truly creates people he knows will reject him and are bound for eternal punishment. Correct? therefore, There is no Free Will, you are predestined to believe.
        Nope. Although I could argue that God did know you would freely choose him one day. Which means he knew you had eternal life before you were even born or made the decision! Just like he knew what job you wold have, how many children you would have, when and how you will die. So, yes I do think God knows who would be saved before he even made the world, but I don't think he CHOSE you to be saved or ELECTED you to be saved. I just think he has perfect knowledge and know who would exist and who would choose him and who would not. Your free will though.

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        • #49
          There are way too many warnings against apostasy in the New Testament to just dismiss them all. (or frankly, for me to list them all). Hebrews 3:6 in particular: But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

          Jesus's statements about eternal life being a present reality make sense in light of us partaking in the life of the Kingdom while here on Earth. Christianity is more than fire insurance you can cash in when you die; there is life with joy and fellowship right now.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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