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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Once Saved Always Saved?

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  • Once Saved Always Saved?

    If salvation results in believing God saved you, can a person who thinks they can be lost, be saved?


  • #2
    Way too vague.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Dave L View Post
      If salvation results in believing God saved you, can a person who thinks they can be lost, be saved?
      I don't understand that question.

      I believe in once saved, always saved. Although I do think someone might think they are saved when they really are not. Like say, Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses who believe in a different Jesus and God than the bible teaches. Or some atheist who decides to believe but then later changes his mind. Did he really have a saving faith or was he one of the seeds on rocky soil?

      Matthew 13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
      Last edited by Sparko; 01-10-2022, 12:31 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Free will is real. Apostasy is real. Without one, the other makes no sense.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          Free will is real. Apostasy is real. Without one, the other makes no sense.
          If you have free will, stop sinning, be perfect.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            I don't understand that question.

            I believe in once saved, always saved. Although I do think someone might think they are saved when they really are not. Like say, Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses who believe in a different Jesus and God than the bible teaches. Or some atheist who decides to believe but then later changes his mind. Did he really have a saving faith or was he one of the seeds on rocky soil?

            Matthew 13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
            Thinking you can be lost shows that you cannot have saving faith at the same time. I.e., the belief that God saved you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              If you have free will, stop sinning, be perfect.
              Stop sinning: That's what Paul said - why are you endorsing his admonition?
              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
              Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

              "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Stop sinning: That's what Paul said - why are you endorsing his admonition?
                If you have free will. live a perfectly sinless life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  If you have free will, stop sinning, be perfect.
                  You can't be this stupid. Or can you?
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                    live a perfectly sinless life.
                    Yup - Paul said that too. "If you live according to the Spirit you will live, but if you live according to the flesh you will die." (or perhaps I have the phrase order reversed.)
                    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                      You can't be this stupid. Or can you?
                      Insults reveal your hatred and only prove you cannot control your tongue as James says.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                        Insults reveal your hatred and only prove you cannot control your tongue as James says.
                        Grow up Pharisee. Your idea of "god" is nothing more than a spiritual rapist. Forcing you to love him whether you like it or not.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          Grow up Pharisee. Your idea of "god" is nothing more than a spiritual rapist. Forcing you to love him whether you like it or not.
                          You really hate God if Calvin was right. This also means you worship an idol stealing His name.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                            Grow up Pharisee. Your idea of "god" is nothing more than a spiritual rapist. Forcing you to love him whether you like it or not.
                            And even to hate him, whether you like it or not.
                            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                            Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                            "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              And even to hate him, whether you like it or not.
                              You are in big trouble if Calvin was right. And it explains your hatred.

                              Comment

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