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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Those who have never heard?

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  • Christianbookworm
    replied
    So that's why the Europeans dehumanized Australian Aboriginal people and Native Americans? Didn't want to admit being wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Right after the verse "Faith comes through hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17) we read, "But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

    'Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.' " (Rom. 10:18)

    Which is about natural revelation (see Ps. 19:1-4)! So it seems there is a chance for people to hear the gospel, through natural revelation.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Not wanting to derail, but interestingly that verse from Paul along with a few others (Romans 1:8; 16:25-26; Colossians 1:6, 23; cf. I Timothy 3:16) was used by later theologians to demonstrate that the entire world had heard the gospel message and therefore was incontrovertible evidence that it was impossible for humans to be living on the other side of the earth (the antipodes).

    Basically, they reasoned that since Paul had clearly stated that the gospel was preached "unto the ends of the world[2]" and in that nobody had ever gone to the other side of the earth this meant that there could be no humans over there.

    Lactantius, the noted African Christian apologist against Stoic thought at the beginning of the 4th century and one of the most reprinted of the Latin Fathers, was content to mock believers in the possibility of people living on the opposite side of the planet writing:

    "How is it with those who imagine that there are antipodes opposite to our footsteps? Do they say anything to the purpose? Or is there any one so senseless as to believe that there are men whose footsteps are higher than their heads? or that the things which with us are in a recumbent position, with them hang in an inverted direction? that the crops and trees grow downwards? that the rains, and snow, and hail fall upwards to the earth? And does any one wonder that hanging gardens are mentioned among the seven wonders of the world, when philosophers make hanging fields, and seas, and cities, and mountains? The origin of this error must also be set forth by us. For they are always deceived in the same manner."


    He called them people who have "erred" and "consistently persevere in their folly and defend one vain thing by another."

    Others, such as Augustine, were considerably less amused. In his De Civitate Dei ("City of God") he declared that:

    "Therefore we find it constantly declared that, as those preachers did not go to the antipodes, no antipodes can exist; hence that the supporters of this geographical doctrine give the lie directly to King David and to St. Paul, and therefore to the Holy Ghost."


    A few centuries later Isodore of Seville declared that "We cannot believe in the existence of a populace called 'Antipodae'." And not too long after we see that St. Boniface sought papal censure against another missionary in Germany for teaching that people lived at the antipodes among other things.

    Leave a comment:


  • FarEastBird
    replied
    Romans 10:8 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"

    The words of God, taken as ONE, is life. The WORD of God, as ONE, is Wisdom. It is WISDOM that gives life to them that have it. (Ecclesiates 7:12)

    WISDOM is heard in all nations, tribes, or languages, in all generations.

    Christians who heard of the gospel, does not know the WISDOM that comes with it, and so were doomed.

    Isaiah 28:9-13
    "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

    Luke 18:8 "...Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

    Many claim to know the WORD of God, but all they have is another story to tell.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Romans 1 speaks to that.

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

    19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

    20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened.

    22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

    23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.
    Last edited by mossrose; 06-10-2021, 09:12 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • lee_merrill
    started a topic Those who have never heard?

    Those who have never heard?

    Right after the verse "Faith comes through hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17) we read, "But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

    'Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.' " (Rom. 10:18)

    Which is about natural revelation (see Ps. 19:1-4)! So it seems there is a chance for people to hear the gospel, through natural revelation.

    Blessings,
    Lee

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