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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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What is the Gospel?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Ah, so besides being a "footwasher", you're now one of His Twelve?
    Where did you get that? What does being one of the Twelve have to do with what Jesus was saying was the official/ definitive way of getting the Holy Spirit?

    Jesus said many things to His Disciples that apply to us, as well. Including that He would pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    The Holy Spirit doesn't drift in and out like a distant AM radio station after sunset.
    You are not getting the meaning of my post. I showed you where Jesus is talking about a future event. Obviously, no one was having the Holy Spirit dwelling with them at the point the words were spoken, even when they were sent out to preach the Gospel. Would you agree to that?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by footwasher View Post
      Where did you get that? What does being one of the Twelve have to do with what Jesus was saying was the official/ definitive way of getting the Holy Spirit?

      You are not getting the meaning of my post. I showed you where Jesus is talking about a future event. Obviously, no one was having the Holy Spirit dwelling with them at the point the words were spoken, even when they were sent out to preach the Gospel. Would you agree to that?
      Quick question - is English your native language? I don't mean to rude - I'm just trying to figure out why you have a tendency to word things in strange ways.

      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Quick question - is English your native language? I don't mean to rude - I'm just trying to figure out why you have a tendency to word things in strange ways.
        Actually, Yes.

        I probably speak English better than you. I would get 100 out of 100 at every test. I used to teach it.

        I have also studied linguistics, so beyond the grammar, actually learned how languages work, like why certain types used subject object verb order in different ways.

        Not meaning to be rude either, but:

        What does it have to do with why you and I couch terms in different ways, reflecting our different views?

        It's a strange topic. And the sentences tend to be complex. All attempting to convey how the pattern is repetitious.
        Last edited by footwasher; 09-13-2021, 08:21 PM.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by footwasher View Post

          Actually, Yes.

          I probably speak English better than you. I would get 100 out of 100 at every test. I used to teach it.
          Laughing. I seriously doubt it, but you're free to believe that.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            Laughing. I seriously doubt it, but you're free to believe that.
            So is there a pattern in how the Holy Spirit is illustrated as working?

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by footwasher View Post

              So is there a pattern in how the Holy Spirit is illustrated as working?
              You realize the Holy Spirit has always existed, yes? And was actually involved with people even in the Old Testament?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                You realize the Holy Spirit has always existed, yes? And was actually involved with people even in the Old Testament?
                Trying again:

                Is receiving the Holy Spirit as described definitively in Galatians 3 the experience of learning obedience through suffering?

                ​​​​​

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  Trying again:

                  Is receiving the Holy Spirit as described definitively in Galatians 3 the experience of learning obedience through suffering?

                  ​​​​​
                  You seem to have a habit of trying to compartmentalize aspects of the Trinity, where there are clearly THREE persons, one of whom is the Holy Spirit.

                  When we're talking about the Disciples, and Jesus sending them to preach, He gave them His authority as early as Matthew 10.
                  It was because he was physically leaving the planet that He promised them He would pray the Father to send Another - The Holy Spirit.

                  This same Holy Spirit was operating even in the Old Testament.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    You seem to have a habit of trying to compartmentalize aspects of the Trinity, where there are clearly THREE persons, one of whom is the Holy Spirit.

                    When we're talking about the Disciples, and Jesus sending them to preach, He gave them His authority as early as Matthew 10.
                    It was because he was physically leaving the planet that He promised them He would pray the Father to send Another - The Holy Spirit.

                    This same Holy Spirit was operating even in the Old Testament.
                    Again.

                    The surrounding nations were amazed at the situation in Israel. Their God tabernacled with them, dwelt amongst the inhabitants. 2 Sam 7.23 and parallels.

                    23And who is like your people Israel, the one nation on earth whom God went to redeem to be his people, making himself a name and doing for them great and awesome things by driving out before your people, whom you redeemed for yourself from Egypt, a nation and its gods?

                    This is described in the Bible as 'receiving the Holy Spirit'.

                    Is this experience the same as the experience of 'learning from suffering', initiated by 'hearing with faith'?
                    Last edited by footwasher; 09-13-2021, 08:59 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      Actually, Yes.

                      I probably speak English better than you. I would get 100 out of 100 at every test. I used to teach it.

                      I have also studied linguistics, so beyond the grammar, actually learned how languages work, like why certain types used subject object verb order in different ways.

                      Not meaning to be rude either, but:

                      What does it have to do with why you and I couch terms in different ways, reflecting our different views?

                      It's a strange topic. And the sentences tend to be complex. All attempting to convey how the pattern is repetitious.
                      AH!!!! You added to your boasting!

                      "footwasher" implies humility --- this is rather... um.. not.

                      But be warned --- I am WAY more humble than you!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        AH!!!! You added to your boasting!

                        "footwasher" implies humility --- this is rather... um.. not.

                        But be warned --- I am WAY more humble than you!
                        Funning? Aren't you being proud of your HUMILITY? And without any basis. I'm washing the feet of sheep, you're poking the higher part of cows! I know youse cow wranglers look down on us sheep herders, but this is too much, going beyond limits! Lol!

                        The handle 'footwasher' is in acknowledgement of the crux of the meaning of obedience, since Jesus washed the church with His words, giving them a full bath, whilst we are commanded to bathe the feet. Jesus already did the heavy lifting.

                        Still waiting for your answer. Is the pattern identifiable as the one proposed?
                        Last edited by footwasher; 09-13-2021, 09:15 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                          Funning?
                          I was.

                          Aren't you being proud of your HUMILITY?
                          It's called humor. Like "I wrote a book - Humility and How I Mastered It".

                          'Footwasher' is acknowledging the crux of the meaning of obedience, since Jesus washed the church with His words, giving them a full bath, whilst we are commanded to bath the feet.
                          Yeah, that's weird. A "foot washer" is one who serves others out of sincerity. Jesus was teaching service.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            I was.



                            It's called humor. Like "I wrote a book - Humility and How I Mastered It".



                            Yeah, that's weird. A "foot washer" is one who serves others out of sincerity. Jesus was teaching service.
                            Got it.

                            Also, take your time. Consider the info.

                            Sometimes, old mindsets are... set. I think it's called inertia, the continuing of a state. Requires time and self effort to reflect and consider a course correction, because of momentum, being wary of losing the effort already invested.

                            I'll be waiting...

                            ;popcorn;
                            Last edited by footwasher; 09-13-2021, 09:29 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              Got it.

                              Also, take your time. Consider the info.

                              Sometimes, old mindsets are... set. I think it's called inertia, the continuing of a state. Requires time and self effort to reflect and consider a course correction, because of momentum, being wary of losing the effort already invested.

                              I'll be waiting...

                              ;popcorn;
                              I actually lost track of what you're asking - you keep editing your posts after I respond to them.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                I actually lost track of what you're asking - you keep editing your posts after I respond to them.
                                Is the receiving the Holy Spirit, as described definitively in Galatians 3, the same experience as learning obedience through suffering?

                                In other words, when the Israelites believed that the situation of Adam could be restored to them if they succeeded in being trained by God to be strong in picking up crosses (because that's what they would be doing in the Kingdom, to gather God's sheep), they began to experience dangerous situations which they were rescued from.

                                Just like Abraham did, in the past. And Christ did, in the future. But unlike these two, the training they received did not profit them. Abraham and Christ learned obedience from the suffering they experienced. Bottomline, the rescues God performed strengthened, built up their faith.

                                When this faith was tested, by being given a dangerous command to follow, crosses, they picked them up. This allowed them entry into the Kingdom. Where they could be in union with God, and perform cross and resurrection deeds, to motivate others to imitate their success at entering the Kingdom.

                                I have already given Scripture support for the claims made in the above statement. If you have doubts on the relevance or truth of any point, you can question them. Maybe you'll find the statement is full of holes. Who knows!
                                Last edited by footwasher; 09-14-2021, 01:41 PM.

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