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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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What is the Gospel?
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
Nice. Now point out the mote you see in my eye. Or according to your analogy, point of the holes in my view!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Just because you want to judge Christians and declare them unsaved or not spirit-filled doesn't mean I have to do likewise. I just offered you a scripture to ponder.
Acts 19
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when a you believed?”
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Originally posted by footwasher View PostMeaning you can't explain what you claim to have experienced.
Any time I find somebody who claims to be a Christian, and delights in declaring other Christians unsaved, I know an honest exchange of ideas is not at all likely.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
I can, but there's that "pearls before pigs" thing.
Any time I find somebody who claims to be a Christian, and delights in declaring other Christians unsaved, I know an honest exchange of ideas is not at all likely.
1 Cor 14
24But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”
But then, by your standards, the Ephesians should have just been insulted and refused to cast their pearls, show their lack, before Paul.
1 John 3
19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world ... but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.Last edited by footwasher; 09-24-2021, 01:14 PM.
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For others who read, I always consider it so sad when Christians attack one another, especially when one person claiming to be a Christian declares somebody else is not, because of their own judgmentalism.
Also, when you see a Christian on a discussion board who calls himself by a name like "footwasher", it has that feel of "I am so much better than others, because I am so humble that I wash the feet of others".
While I don't wish to be at war with this particular person, just look at the condescending tone, the apparent eagerness of declaring others, in essence, "not fit for the Kingdom", when it's God's Grace that saves us.
When a person isn't capable of extending that same Grace to others, it honestly makes one wonder whether than person has ever actually exprienced God's Grace in the first place.
Still, I'm a always very careful to declare somebody "not a Christian" unless they have said so themselves, or their fruit is so disgustingly rotten that the likelihood of them being a Christian is incredibly remote.
Grace. If you receive it, you outta share it.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostFor others who read, I always consider it so sad when Christians attack one another, especially when one person claiming to be a Christian declares somebody else is not, because of their own judgmentalism.
Also, when you see a Christian on a discussion board who calls himself by a name like "footwasher", it has that feel of "I am so much better than others, because I am so humble that I wash the feet of others".
While I don't wish to be at war with this particular person, just look at the condescending tone, the apparent eagerness of declaring others, in essence, "not fit for the Kingdom", when it's God's Grace that saves us.
When a person isn't capable of extending that same Grace to others, it honestly makes one wonder whether than person has ever actually exprienced God's Grace in the first place.
Still, I'm a always very careful to declare somebody "not a Christian" unless they have said so themselves, or their fruit is so disgustingly rotten that the likelihood of them being a Christian is incredibly remote.
Grace. If you receive it, you outta share it.
Why do you keep avoiding displaying your gift?
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
Ad hom, the last resort...
Why do you keep avoiding displaying your gift?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Actually, I expressed my honest and sincere opinion, and fully expected for you not to get it.
The brother asked if you received the Holy Spirit. You took offense.
He showed what it meant to 'have' the Holy Spirit, the ability to only do what the Father does, say what the Father says. The brother is only a sock puppet, nothing to boast about, but what a privilege, to be used as a vessel for honorable purposes!
The explanation you heard is the work of the Holy Spirit. You can't find it in any commentary. You can't find fault in it. It is obviously 'of the Spirit'. This is what moved Nicodemus to come to Jesus.
Jesus took up the cross, attempted hard tasks, God lifted Him up from the earth, people were drawn to God.
But it's not irresistible.
Matt 11
21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that occurred in you had occurred in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
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Originally posted by footwasher View PostOk, this is what happened....
I don't trust your spiritual maturity or integrity.
I wouldn't say you're not a Christian, but if you are, I believe you are a very misguided one, and one who seems to be looking for a battle. Not interested.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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