Repentance is the Gift Of God !

[footwasher]

Jesus said preach repentance, is that reasonable enough ? Lk 24:46-47



⁴⁶ And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

⁴⁷And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

In English, preaching repentance means repentance isn't a gift.

[lee_merrill]

So grace doesn't automatically lead to salvation.

Agreed...

Grace only means inclusion, opportunity, being given a formal covenant...

Well, it could mean that, let's examine Scripture, and see if there is a clear indication that God must move through his grace, in order for people to be saved. I believe there is:

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (Jn 6:44)

Note that drawing here means they come, for all who are drawn here will be raised up at the last day.

Blessiings,
Lee

[brightfame52]

Please be reasonable.

If people are given repentance as a gift, why preach repentance?

If I say a person has been given obedience as a gift and is now paying taxes honestly, why should I place advertisements in the newspaper requesting people to pay taxes?

Jesus said preach repentance, is that reasonable enough ? Lk 24:46-47



⁴⁶ And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

⁴⁷And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

[footwasher]

Are Faith and Repentance evangelical truths that must be preached ? The answer is absolutely yes, Jesus said Lk 24:47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

So its no doubt that sound Gospel preaching includes repentance. However where men go wrong is when they make repentance and or faith conditions for Justification before God ! They say that men and women for whom Christ died are not justified, made righteous before God without them ! They are in essence saying that everything Christ did for them in His Person and Work fell short in making them righteous/justified before God.1b

Please be reasonable.

If people are given repentance as a gift, why preach repentance?

If I say a person has been given obedience as a gift and is now paying taxes honestly, why should I place advertisements in the newspaper requesting people to pay taxes?

[brightfame52]

Are Faith and Repentance evangelical truths that must be preached ? The answer is absolutely yes, Jesus said Lk 24:47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

So its no doubt that sound Gospel preaching includes repentance. However where men go wrong is when they make repentance and or faith conditions for Justification before God ! They say that men and women for whom Christ died are not justified, made righteous before God without them ! They are in essence saying that everything Christ did for them in His Person and Work fell short in making them righteous/justified before God.1b

[footwasher]

Well, I think that includes both Jewish and Gentile believers in Achaia, in Berea, for example:

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

So when we read "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent", we can see that faith is a gift.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

So being saved by grace through faith is all a gift from God, and not of ourselves.

Blessings,
Lee

Well I also showed that Israel was shown grace, the privilege of seeing signs that should cause repentance, being born again, but only Caleb drank and produced vegetation, had a different spirit, was born again, and was saved.

So grace doesn't automatically lead to salvation.

Grace only means inclusion, opportunity, being given a formal covenant:

Ep 2.11Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, [m]excluded from [n]the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away [o]have been brought near [p]by the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [q]barrier of the dividing wall, 15[r]by abolishing [s]in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [t]make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [u]by it having put to death the hostility. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the [v]saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [w]temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

[lee_merrill]

Acts 18.27When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

You are saying belief is a gift.

The text is simply saying the disciples in Achaia had come to the faith by God including Gentiles in His People.

Well, I think that includes both Jewish and Gentile believers in Achaia, in Berea, for example:

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

So when we read "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent", we can see that faith is a gift.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

So being saved by grace through faith is all a gift from God, and not of ourselves.

Blessings,
Lee

[footwasher]

Hi footwasher, I don't see how your replies are replying to my actual points.

Blessings,
Lee

Acts 18.27When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

You are saying belief is a gift.

The text is simply saying the disciples in Achaia had come to the faith by God including Gentiles in His People.

Ephesians 2.1And [a]you [b]were dead [c]in your offenses and sins, 2in which you previously walked according to the [d]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the [e]sons of disobedience. 3Among them [f]we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, [g]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [h]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead [i]in our wrongdoings, made us alive together [j]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the [k]boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

[lee_merrill]

Hi footwasher, I don't see how your replies are replying to my actual points.

Blessings,
Lee

[footwasher]

No, the Scripture says "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent."

It's clear that Jesus considered the Syro-Phoenician woman not eligible to receive grace, which Chorazin and Bethesda received, yet these cities did not repent, never mind in ashes. In other words, even though Israel was not the greatest of nations, wisest of countries, even though they had nothing to boast about, they received all the benefits of a favored nation: by grace, overlooking their inadequacies.

And Jesus was quoting Isaiah saying "make this peoples' heart hard, lest they turn and be healed.

So without this hardening, they would have turned and been healed, and not remained disobedient.

Blessings,
Lee

We know that Israel was given the favored nation status arbitrarily, but this went against the justice of God. To balance this partiality, Israel was hardened, so that she would be given over to disobedience, and her future forgiveness would be the same as that given to Gentiles, by grace, overlooking her disobedience, by mercy:

Rom 11.25For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written:

“THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,

HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”

27“THIS IS [k]MY COVENANT WITH THEM,

WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.” 28In relation to the gospel they are enemies on your account, but in relation to God’s choice they are beloved on account of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches, [l]both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?

[footwasher]

All the glory for salvation belongs to God, He has done all that was necessary for the salvation of a man, including the granting of the gift of repentance . Repentance is given furnished in and through Christ because it was necessary for mans Salvation experience. There's a verse that says with Christ, God freely gives us all things Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

So with Christ He gives repentance Acts 5:31;11:18

The word grant or give in these verses is the word didōmi and means:
to supply, furnish, necessary things

So is repentance necessary for the Salvatiion experience ? Absolutely, its necessary for repentance to be towards God Acts 20:21

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

But no worries since through Christ God furnishes, supplies this needed repentance repentance, and it will be applied by Christ.

Christ is a full Saviour ! 19

Better improve your English.

[lee_merrill]

Sure, but I've shown that grace is giving the guilty, who normally are just punished, an opportunity to repent.

No, the Scripture says "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent."

As with Pharoah, hardening is inflicted on people who are already disobedient...

And Jesus was quoting Isaiah saying "make this peoples' heart hard, lest they turn and be healed.

So without this hardening, they would have turned and been healed, and not remained disobedient.

Blessings,
Lee

[brightfame52]

All the glory for salvation belongs to God, He has done all that was necessary for the salvation of a man, including the granting of the gift of repentance . Repentance is given furnished in and through Christ because it was necessary for mans Salvation experience. There's a verse that says with Christ, God freely gives us all things Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

So with Christ He gives repentance Acts 5:31;11:18

The word grant or give in these verses is the word didōmi and means:
to supply, furnish, necessary things

So is repentance necessary for the Salvatiion experience ? Absolutely, its necessary for repentance to be towards God Acts 20:21

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

But no worries since through Christ God furnishes, supplies this needed repentance repentance, and it will be applied by Christ.

Christ is a full Saviour ! 19

[footwasher]

Faith is indeed necessary for conversion, but faith is a gift from God, too: "When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed." (Acts 18:27

Sure, but I've shown that grace is giving the guilty, who normally are just punished, an opportunity to repent. This is seen as grace given to the children, Jews, and the dogs under the tables, Gentiles, the Syro-Phoenician woman. Was the woman entitled to repentance, by witnessing signs? Strictly, by the letter of the Law, by the requirements of some understanding, agreement, No! But Jesus graciously allowed it. So too with Israel. Was she the most strong nation? The wisest nation? No, going by the requirements of reason, there was nothing for her to boast about. God graciously made her His Chosen People, even though He preferred to consider people who believed as the true descendants of Abraham. Graciousness, leniency, overlooking inadequacy, all seen in God's dealings.

But does God harden peoples' hearts so they cannot repent?

"Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.

This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

'Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?'

For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

'He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.' ” (John 12:37-40)

As with Pharoah, hardening is inflicted on people who are already disobedient:

John 13.27After this, Satan then entered him. Therefore Jesus said to him, “What you are doing, do it quickly.”

Salvation is by God's decision, notice that all the analogies of salvation (new birth, new creation, etc.) are passive on our part.

Blessings,
Lee

Nevertheless, Caleb's having a new spirit, being born again, is taught as resulting from drinking rain and bringing forth vegetation:

Hebrews 6.7For ground that drinks the rain which often [g]falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and [h]close to being cursed, and [i]it ends up being burned.
...

Luke 13.7And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Look! For three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ ...

Matt 11.21"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that occurred in you had occurred in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes."

John 6.26Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it is not because you saw these signs that you are looking for Me, but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.

Israel and Caleb both saw signs. Caleb used the signs to build up his faith, became a different person, the rest of Israel did not.

[lee_merrill]

Belief (by the person) was responsible for bringing a person into Christ.

Faith is indeed necessary for conversion, but faith is a gift from God, too: "When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed." (Acts 18:27)

Israel was given the opportunity to repent but it refused...

But does God harden peoples' hearts so they cannot repent?

"Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.

This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

'Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?'

For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

'He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.' ” (John 12:37-40)

Salvation is by God's decision, notice that all the analogies of salvation (new birth, new creation, etc.) are passive on our part.

Blessings,
Lee