Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Repentance is the Gift Of God !

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Exactly. Unless it is explained that Paul did not know Christ was God, it is correct to say Paul was right in persecuting the Church, cleaning the People of God from sinners, just like Phinehas was doing.
    Numbers 25.1While Israel was staying in Shittim,a the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with the daughters of Moab, 2who also invited them to the sacrifices for their gods. And the people ate and bowed down to these gods. 3So Israel joined in worshiping Baal of Peor, and the anger of the LORD burned against them.

    4Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people and execute them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that His fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

    5So Moses told the judges of Israel, “Each of you must kill all of his men who have joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.”

    6Just then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman in the sight of Moses and the whole congregation of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7On seeing this, Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, got up from the assembly, took a spear in his hand, 8followed the Israelite into his tent, and drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and on through the belly of the woman.

    So the plague against the Israelites was halted, 9but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.
    According to Acts 9 who asked the question to saul, why persecutest thou me ? Is Christ God ?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    According to Acts 9 who asked the question to saul, why persecutest thou me ? Is Christ God ?
    Exactly. Unless it is explained that Paul did not know Christ was God, it is correct to say Paul was right in persecuting the Church, cleaning the People of God from sinners, just like Phinehas was doing.
    Numbers 25.1While Israel was staying in Shittim,a the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with the daughters of Moab, 2who also invited them to the sacrifices for their gods. And the people ate and bowed down to these gods. 3So Israel joined in worshiping Baal of Peor, and the anger of the LORD burned against them.

    4Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people and execute them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that His fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

    5So Moses told the judges of Israel, “Each of you must kill all of his men who have joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.”

    6Just then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman in the sight of Moses and the whole congregation of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7On seeing this, Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, got up from the assembly, took a spear in his hand, 8followed the Israelite into his tent, and drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and on through the belly of the woman.

    So the plague against the Israelites was halted, 9but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.
    Last edited by footwasher; Yesterday, 09:02 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Since you don't know the answer, I will feed you the answer. In Gal 1.12, Paul says he received the revelation of what the Gospel was. It was that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, do that whosoever believed in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life (Jn 3.16). This was confirmed to be true, by raising Jesus up from the grave:

    1 Cor 15.3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance a : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, b and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

    In other words, what Paul did in persecuting the Church was right according to the information he had: he was removing the sinful people from the People of God, because they were following a different god, Jesus. But when Paul received a revelation that Jesus WAS the true God Himself, he believed this explanation, because God gave him proof that this view was the truth, by raising Jesus up from the grave.

    So Paul was not hating God, he was acting correctly for the information he had. Jesus had to explain to him that it was actually God he was attacking, that he was mistaken. Since he did not hate God, he stopped his persecution.

    By now you should be eating solid food, even teaching others correctly, but you are still drinking milk. How sad.

    You should try to enter the Kingdom, like all other mature believers have done. Don't be late.
    According to Acts 9 who asked the question to saul, why persecutest thou me ? Is Christ God ?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    According to Acts 9 who asked the question to saul, why persecutest thou me ?
    Since you don't know the answer, I will feed you the answer. In Gal 1.12, Paul says he received the revelation of what the Gospel was. It was that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, do that whosoever believed in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life (Jn 3.16). This was confirmed to be true, by raising Jesus up from the grave:

    1 Cor 15.3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance a : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, b and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

    In other words, what Paul did in persecuting the Church was right according to the information he had: he was removing the sinful people from the People of God, because they were following a different god, Jesus. But when Paul received a revelation that Jesus WAS the true God Himself, he believed this explanation, because God gave him proof that this view was the truth, by raising Jesus up from the grave.

    So Paul was not hating God, he was acting correctly for the information he had. Jesus had to explain to him that it was actually God he was attacking, that he was mistaken. Since he did not hate God, he stopped his persecution.

    By now you should be eating solid food, even teaching others correctly, but you are still drinking milk. How sad.

    You should try to enter the Kingdom, like all other mature believers have done. Don't be late.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Paul says he got new information in Galatians 1.12. What is that new information?
    According to Acts 9 who asked the question to saul, why persecutest thou me ?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    You still dont get it, Its right there in Acts 9. Saul hated and persecuted Christ and His People !
    Paul says he got new information in Galatians 1.12. What is that new information?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Paul never met Jesus, so how could he hate Him? It's very clear that he hated the Church for following Jesus, and when he LATER got a revelation from Jesus that He was God, he stopped hating it.

    Where is the mistake in this answer?
    You still dont get it, Its right there in Acts 9. Saul hated and persecuted Christ and His People !

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    You have the answer right in front of you in black and white Acts 9 and you dont get it !
    Paul never met Jesus, so how could he hate Him? It's very clear that he hated the Church for following Jesus, and when he LATER got a revelation from Jesus that He was God, he stopped hating it.

    Where is the mistake in this answer?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Since you don't know the answers, I will give them.

    If he hated Christ, why couldn't he recognise Him when He appeared?

    Because he never hated Christ. He couldn't hate someone he never met.

    Why did Jesus say that Paul was persecuting Him, when Paul was really persecuting the Church?

    Because the Church was following what He taught them.

    Why did Paul hate the Church?

    Because he loved God, and God said to keep His People pure. When Phineas killed the Israelite who was sleeping with a Canaanite woman, God praised him, and the disaster that was falling on Israel was stopped. Paul thought that persecuting the Church was like that. He felt if he kept Israel pure by destroying the Church, which was teaching the command to follow Jesus, he felt it was a step to prevent Israel from worshipping other gods.

    Only when Jesus taught him He was God, gave him a new revelation, only then did Paul stop persecuting the Church. So Paul was not a hater of God, he was ignorant. He was not sinning, but making mistake. Do we punish people or children who make mistakes? No-oooh! We tell them what is correct.

    So God did not give Paul repentance. He gave him a new revelation.
    You have the answer right in front of you in black and white Acts 9 and you dont get it !

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    You still dont get it !
    Since you don't know the answers, I will give them.

    If he hated Christ, why couldn't he recognise Him when He appeared?

    Because he never hated Christ. He couldn't hate someone he never met.

    Why did Jesus say that Paul was persecuting Him, when Paul was really persecuting the Church?

    Because the Church was following what He taught them.

    Why did Paul hate the Church?

    Because he loved God, and God said to keep His People pure. When Phineas killed the Israelite who was sleeping with a Canaanite woman, God praised him, and the disaster that was falling on Israel was stopped. Paul thought that persecuting the Church was like that. He felt if he kept Israel pure by destroying the Church, which was teaching the command to follow Jesus, he felt it was a step to prevent Israel from worshipping other gods.

    Num 25.1While Israel remained at Shittim, the people began to commit infidelity with the daughters of Moab. 2For they invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods. 3So Israel [a]became followers of [b]Baal of Peor, and the LORD was angry with Israel. 4And the LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people and [c]execute them [d]in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the fierce anger of the LORD may turn away from Israel.” 5So Moses said to the judges of Israel, “Each of you kill his men who have [e]become followers of [f]Baal of Peor.”


    Only when Jesus taught him He was God, gave him a new revelation, only then did Paul stop persecuting the Church. So Paul was not a hater of God, he was ignorant. He was not sinning, but making mistake. Do we punish people or children who make mistakes? No-oooh! We tell them what is correct.

    So God did not give Paul repentance. He gave him a new revelation.

    Galatians 1.12For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
    Last edited by footwasher; 06-21-2021, 10:20 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    If he hated Christ, why couldn't he recognise Him when He appeared?

    Why did Jesus say that Paul was persecuting Him, when Paul was really persecuting the Church?

    Why did Paul hate the Church?
    You still dont get it !

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    I just showed you, and you dont get it ! Saul of tarsus hated Christ and his followers and persecuted them. Acts 9
    If he hated Christ, why couldn't he recognise Him when He appeared?

    Why did Jesus say that Paul was persecuting Him, when Paul was really persecuting the Church?

    Why did Paul hate the Church?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    How can you hate someone you don't know?
    I just showed you, and you dont get it ! Saul of tarsus hated Christ and his followers and persecuted them. Acts 9

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    You still dont get it, even when its written right in front of you !
    How can you hate someone you don't know?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    It's the same reasoning. Paul didn't even know who he was persecuting!
    You still dont get it, even when its written right in front of you !

    Leave a comment:

Related Threads

Collapse

Topics Statistics Last Post
Started by Christianbookworm, 06-13-2021, 06:09 PM
3 responses
24 views
3 likes
Last Post Christianbookworm  
Started by lee_merrill, 06-10-2021, 07:54 PM
1 response
19 views
0 likes
Last Post mossrose  
Started by Cow Poke, 03-23-2021, 02:41 PM
16 responses
139 views
0 likes
Last Post tabibito  
Started by footwasher, 03-14-2021, 12:55 PM
21 responses
155 views
0 likes
Last Post footwasher  
Started by brightfame52, 02-10-2021, 09:46 AM
171 responses
689 views
2 likes
Last Post brightfame52  
Working...
X