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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Repentance is the Gift Of God !

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  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    You scared to discuss my points friend !
    What a puerile comment. Just pick a point and give Scripture to support it. For example, which Bible verse supports election? I'll show that it doesn't.

    Comment


    • Repentance is Limited to Gods Elect/Chosen ! 2

      You see, repentance is based upon in the evangelical sense, the forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31

      Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

      Lk 24:47

      And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

      Its the Chosen in Christ who have forgiveness of sins, Eph 1:4,7

      According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

      In whom we [The Chosen in Christ the Beloved Vs4] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

      Comment


      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
        Repentance is Limited to Gods Elect/Chosen ! 2

        You see, repentance is based upon in the evangelical sense, the forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31

        Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

        Lk 24:47

        And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

        Its the Chosen in Christ who have forgiveness of sins, Eph 1:4,7

        According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

        In whom we [The Chosen in Christ the Beloved Vs4] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
        As already mentioned, Israel was given the opportunity to repent, but it didn't. This shows that repentance isn't linked to automatic salvation. Then you said Israel is not Israel. You said the saved Christians, Jew and Gentile, is Israel.

        However, Paul says God's word hasn't failed. Israel is only cut off temporarily. When the preplanned numbers of Gentiles are saved, then Israel's hardening will be lifted. Israel will be grafted in again. This proves Israel is really Israel, not the already saved Christians.

        Also Ephesians 1.4, 7 is describing how we are saved, by being in Christ. Every time we see God's plan of salvation, it is always IN Christ. In other words, God does did not chose who to save, but how they are saved.

        Ephesians 1:5
        He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

        Ephesians 1:11
        In Him we were also chosen as God's own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,
        Last edited by footwasher; 05-18-2021, 01:28 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

          As already mentioned, Israel was given the opportunity to repent, but it didn't. This shows that repentance isn't linked to automatic salvation. Then you said Israel is not Israel. You said the saved Christians, Jew and Gentile, is Israel.

          However, Paul says God's word hasn't failed. Israel is only cut off temporarily. When the preplanned numbers of Gentiles are saved, then Israel's hardening will be lifted. Israel will be grafted in again. This proves Israel is really Israel, not the already saved Christians.

          Also Ephesians 1.4, 7 is describing how we are saved, by being in Christ. Every time we see God's plan of salvation, it is always IN Christ. In other words, God does did not chose who to save, but how they are saved.

          Ephesians 1:5
          He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

          Ephesians 1:11
          In Him we were also chosen as God's own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,
          You dont have a clue friend !

          Comment


          • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

            You dont have a clue friend !
            You can argue with Scripture, not with me.

            Comment


            • See, the natural man is bound to the Law and is required to do the whole law without fault as was Adam, the natural head of man. Now naturally man is bound to the Law as long as he lives naturally, except secretly, unknown to him, he became dead to the Law by the Body of Christ Rom 7:4, which if is the case, repentance will be given them via the newbirth.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                See, the natural man is bound to the Law and is required to do the whole law without fault as was Adam, the natural head of man. Now naturally man is bound to the Law as long as he lives naturally, except secretly, unknown to him, he became dead to the Law by the Body of Christ Rom 7:4, which if is the case, repentance will be given them via the newbirth.
                Right now, you're not clear:

                How is Adam bound to Law?
                How do people live naturally, and how do they secretly become dead to Law by the body of Christ?
                Why should someone who is dead to the Law be given repentance (actually forgiveness, because repentance can't be given: it is a response)?
                What is the new birth?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  Right now, you're not clear:

                  How is Adam bound to Law?
                  How do people live naturally, and how do they secretly become dead to Law by the body of Christ?
                  Why should someone who is dead to the Law be given repentance (actually forgiveness, because repentance can't be given: it is a response)?
                  What is the new birth?
                  If you don't know these things you must not be a believer. If that is the case why are you on this forum?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                    If you don't know these things you must not be a believer. If that is the case why are you on this forum?
                    You've obviously copied and pasted these statements since you can't explain them. I was quite surprised you listed out the important points, that you had that much knowledge, but it's plain you just listed out someone else's writings. And you revealed this by being unable to explain it.

                    Prove me wrong.

                    Comment



                    • See, if Christ didn't die for one, then they are bound to the Law, to do it perfectly or suffer condemnation of death. Heres how it works in this simile Rom 7:7

                      7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

                      2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

                      The only way the sinner isn't still married to and bound to the Law, is if Christ died for them, if He didn't, no repentance can be granted, its their natural duty to obey God's law perfectly, or else eternal damnation!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                        See, if Christ didn't die for one, then they are bound to the Law, to do it perfectly or suffer condemnation of death. Heres how it works in this simile Rom 7:7

                        7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

                        2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

                        The only way the sinner isn't still married to and bound to the Law, is if Christ died for them, if He didn't, no repentance can be granted, its their natural duty to obey God's law perfectly, or else eternal damnation!
                        That's very good. Now explain some missing information.

                        Humanity is the wife.

                        Christ is the husband.

                        Christ died for humanity.

                        So we are free from the Law.

                        But how is Christ the husband?

                        And why is His death the same as the death of the Law?

                        PS it's Rom 7.1, not Rom 7.7.
                        Last edited by footwasher; 05-22-2021, 03:58 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          Acts 5.31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


                          Okay, so God exalted Jesus to give repentance to Israel…



                          BUT ISRAEL DID NOT REPENT! So the gift given had no effect, did not reprogram Israel!



                          Acts 11.18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


                          So God has also granted repentance to Gentiles. Sure, this means Gentiles have now been included in the People of God.


                          HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL GENTILES HAVE REPENTED! It does not mean that all Gentiles have been reprogrammed to repent!


                          Your theology is reaching conclusions not given in Scripture. Please repent, Brightfame52, please follow Jesus's teachings! Paul knew the believers in Acts 19 were only having half knowledge. It's sad, because John had taught them to move forward, follow Jesus, when He began His ministry, because John was only the best man, Jesus was the Bridegroom!

                          When you follow Jesus, then you will become gifted and be a blessing to the world, gather in God's lost sheep, receive the promise given to Abraham, be perfected:

                          1 Cor 14.24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
                          STM that the emphasis in Acts 5.31 is not on what is given, but upon the status of Jesus as the Messiah. The verse is saying that God acting through Jesus, or Jesus himself, gives repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

                          IOW, God gives those things, to Israel - and does so, through the mediation of none other than “this Jesus”, who is the God-given Messiah.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                            STM that the emphasis in Acts 5.31 is not on what is given, but upon the status of Jesus as the Messiah. The verse is saying that God acting through Jesus, or Jesus himself, gives repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

                            IOW, God gives those things, to Israel - and does so, through the mediation of none other than “this Jesus”, who is the God-given Messiah.
                            Yes the emphasis is on the faithfulness to Torah in God's giving of Jesus, that the occurence of the incident was Scriptural, but we must give credit to the OP who used it as proof that Israel was the only recipient of revelation by Mashiach. Jesus DID say He was only sent to the sheep of Israel.

                            However, Israel though given revelation and the OPPORTUNITY to repent, change, did not, so God was free to expand the description of who the children of Abraham were: they were now identified by faith!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              That's very good. Now explain some missing information.

                              Humanity is the wife.

                              Christ is the husband.

                              Christ died for humanity.

                              So we are free from the Law.

                              But how is Christ the husband?

                              And why is His death the same as the death of the Law?

                              PS it's Rom 7.1, not Rom 7.7.
                              You already dissing the points I have been explaining !

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                                STM that the emphasis in Acts 5.31 is not on what is given, but upon the status of Jesus as the Messiah. The verse is saying that God acting through Jesus, or Jesus himself, gives repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

                                IOW, God gives those things, to Israel - and does so, through the mediation of none other than “this Jesus”, who is the God-given Messiah.
                                You realize Israel here is Spiritual Israel, the Church dont you ? Its not referring to ethnic national israel at all !

                                Comment

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