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Repentance is the Gift Of God !

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  • #91
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Biblical Performance: respond by doing sufficient work in order to achieve salvation.

    Biblical Belief: respond by demonstrating loyalty in order to achieve salvation.

    So salvation is conditional on response.

    In the Old Covenant, the response requirement (righteousness required by God, dikaiosune theou) was work. In the New Covenant, it is loyalty, faith.

    Romans 3.19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [k]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works [l]of the Law [m]none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for [n]through the Law comes [o]knowledge of sin.

    21But now apart [p]from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the [q]Law and the Prophets, 22but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [r]who believe;

    Knowledge of sin shocked the believer: the requirement was too hard! Covetousness is a sin? And we have a body of death? And we have to be perfect in all the requirements? Who will save us?!

    Thanks be to Christ! Who gave us a different requirement of faith, loyalty, by fulfilling the Old Covenant and making a will with an inheritance of the New Covenant, and dying so that we can enter that inheritance:

    Hebrews 9.15For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where there is a [r]covenant, there must of necessity [s]be the death of the one who made it. 17For a [t]covenant is valid only when people are dead, [u]for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled both the [v]tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22And almost all things are cleansed with blood, according to the Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
    You teach salvation by works like most people.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

      You teach salvation by works like most people.
      Salvation is always by right response. In the Old Covenant, it was by works, in the New, by faith. John the Baptist, and Jesus, rebuked Israel, for wrong response, fasting, tithing and Sabbath keeping, while neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. John, and Jesus, taught that repentance, change, was needed, and after that, to believe in Jesus, the right responses to the Covenants, respectively:

      Acts 19.4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

      This is what a tweb member wrote:

      Quote Outside of the Bible, what is the Greek word for faith (pistis) used to mean? We're in luck... the first century Jewish historian Josephus uses it in his writings.

      In his autobiography, Jospehus describes a time when he was the leader of a small army, and another group had tried to kill him. Josephus captures the enemy leader and says to him “repent and have faith in me hereafter” (Life 110). What Josephus clearly means by this is “become part of my army, and obey my commands.”

      Later he speaks of a city that had turned against him, which after he has forced them into submission again, he rebukes them for revolting “from their faith in me” (Life 167). Again, he's speaking of their loyalty to him.

      What exactly is the quality that Josephus is getting at? Think about his usage of the word in an army and the concept of soldiers following their leader. What is the relationship between a soldier and their commanding officer like? The solider is loyal and trusting, he follows his superiors' commands, when the captain leads the charge into battle the soldier is right there behind him following in his footsteps. The concept is one of “followingness”, obedience to orders, loyalty, faithfulness, allegiance etc. English is really missing a word to describe this quality of a soldier... the quality of “followingness”.

      https://theogeek.blogspot.com/2005/0...faith.html?m=1
      Last edited by footwasher; 05-03-2021, 03:58 PM.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by footwasher View Post

        Salvation is always by right response. In the Old Covenant, it was by works, in the New, by faith. John the Baptist, and Jesus, rebuked Israel, for wrong response, fasting, tithing and Sabbath keeping, while neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness. John, and Jesus, taught that repentance, change, was needed, and after that, to believe in Jesus, the right responses to the Covenants, respectively:

        Acts 19.4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

        This is what a tweb member wrote:

        Quote Outside of the Bible, what is the Greek word for faith (pistis) used to mean? We're in luck... the first century Jewish historian Josephus uses it in his writings.

        In his autobiography, Jospehus describes a time when he was the leader of a small army, and another group had tried to kill him. Josephus captures the enemy leader and says to him “repent and have faith in me hereafter” (Life 110). What Josephus clearly means by this is “become part of my army, and obey my commands.”

        Later he speaks of a city that had turned against him, which after he has forced them into submission again, he rebukes them for revolting “from their faith in me” (Life 167). Again, he's speaking of their loyalty to him.

        What exactly is the quality that Josephus is getting at? Think about his usage of the word in an army and the concept of soldiers following their leader. What is the relationship between a soldier and their commanding officer like? The solider is loyal and trusting, he follows his superiors' commands, when the captain leads the charge into battle the soldier is right there behind him following in his footsteps. The concept is one of “followingness”, obedience to orders, loyalty, faithfulness, allegiance etc. English is really missing a word to describe this quality of a soldier... the quality of “followingness”.

        https://theogeek.blogspot.com/2005/0...faith.html?m=1
        You are validating salvation by works friend !

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

          You are validating salvation by works friend !
          Point out where Scripture says I'm wrong. You cannot. But I can point to many passages which say your view is wrong:

          Quote
          3. Final Judgment According to Works

          The third point is remarkably controversial, seeing how well founded it is at several points in Paul. Indeed, listening to yesterday’s papers, it seems that there has been a massive conspiracy of silence on something which was quite clear for Paul (as indeed for Jesus). Paul, in company with mainstream second-Temple Judaism, affirms that God’s final judgment will be in accordance with the entirety of a life led – in accordance, in other words, with works. He says this clearly and unambiguously in Romans 14.10–12 and 2 Corinthians 5.10. He affirms it in that terrifying passage about church-builders in 1 Corinthians 3. But the main passage in question is of course Romans 2.1–16.

          This passage has often been read differently. We heard yesterday that Augustine had problems with it (perhaps the only thing in common between Augustine and E. P. Sanders). That is hardly surprising; here is the first statement about justification in Romans, and lo and behold it affirms justification according to works! The doers of the law, he says, will be justified (2.13). Shock, horror; Paul cannot (so many have thought) have really meant it. So the passage has been treated as a hypothetical position which Paul then undermines by showing that nobody can actually achieve it; or, by Sanders for instance, as a piece of unassimilated Jewish preaching which Paul allows to stand even though it conflicts with other things he says. But all such theories are undermined by exegesis itself, not least by observing the many small but significant threads that stitch Romans 2 into the fabric of the letter as a whole. Paul means what he says. Granted, he redefines what ‘doing the law’ really means; he does this in chapter 8, and again in chapter 10, with a codicil in chapter 13. But he makes the point most compactly in Philippians 1.6: he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion on the day of Christ Jesus. The ‘works’ in accordance with which the Christian will be vindicated on the last day are not the unaided works of the self-help moralist. Nor are they the performance of the ethnically distinctive Jewish boundary-markers (sabbath, food-laws and circumcision). They are the things which show, rather, that one is in Christ; the things which are produced in one’s life as a result of the Spirit’s indwelling and operation. In this way, Romans 8.1–17 provides the real answer to Romans 2.1–16. Why is there now ‘no condemnation’? Because, on the one hand, God has condemned sin in the flesh of Christ (let no-one say, as some have done, that this theme is absent in my work; it was and remains central in my thinking and my spirituality); and, on the other hand, because the Spirit is at work to do, within believers, what the Law could not do – ultimately, to give life, but a life that begins in the present with the putting to death of the deeds of the body and the obedient submission to the leading of the Spirit.

          https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/...tives-on-paul/

          Also see 5.10 minutes into the video:

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ICHovRHJAYY
          Last edited by footwasher; 05-04-2021, 06:21 AM.

          Comment


          • #95
            Like Faith, True Repentance is from a Spiritual Source, its the Gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Repentance thats towards God can be that which leadeth to Godly sorrow 2 Cor 7:10

            For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

            So this being true, this type of repentance in regards to salvation is from a godly source ! That godly source cant be out from the flesh of sinful man, which I believe can only worketh or lead to death !64

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
              Like Faith, True Repentance is from a Spiritual Source, its the Gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Repentance thats towards God can be that which leadeth to Godly sorrow 2 Cor 7:10

              For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

              So this being true, this type of repentance in regards to salvation is from a godly source ! That godly source cant be out from the flesh of sinful man, which I believe can only worketh or lead to death !64
              Why do you find it so hard to understand?

              I said you can't find Scripture support for your view, that salvation is not by works.

              Why are you posting what happens when sorrow is from worldly problems, not spiritual problems? You should really improve your English.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                Why do you find it so hard to understand?

                I said you can't find Scripture support for your view, that salvation is not by works.

                Why are you posting what happens when sorrow is from worldly problems, not spiritual problems? You should really improve your English.

                Lol, what you think I have been making my points with, the newspaper.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                  Lol, what you think I have been making my points with, the newspaper.
                  Look, make your points showing salvation is from doing nothing.

                  Don't change the subject to what worldly sorrow results in.

                  If you can't understand that, you shouldn't be posting here, misguiding people.

                  If you can post with good sense, I might even be converted to your views. But they have to be relevant, should make sense, should not drift from the topic.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Acts 17:30

                    And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

                    Now is this a universal command of God ? Yes by means ! Is it a command for all individuals universal ? No, by no means, its for the Elect or Chosen of God universally, God Spiritual Israel from amongst the jews and Gentiles. Repentance has been granted solely to Israel with the accompanying forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31

                    Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince anda Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

                    "a Saviour to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

                    But to have us understand that this Israel is #1 Spiritual and #2 Universal reaching into all ethnic groups, we learn this Acts 11:18

                    When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.And that is why repentance with remission of sins should be preached universally to all nations Lk 24:46-47

                    46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
                    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Cp Acts 5:31

                    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness/remission of sins.

                    Now Israel is Gods Chosen, that is Spiritual Israel is, an Israel Chosen in Gods Chosen Christ !

                    Eph 1:4

                    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                      Acts 17:30

                      And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

                      Now is this a universal command of God ? Yes by means ! Is it a command for all individuals universal ? No, by no means, its for the Elect or Chosen of God universally, God Spiritual Israel from amongst the jews and Gentiles. Repentance has been granted solely to Israel with the accompanying forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31
                      This is called eisegesis. The text does not say that repentance is given only to the elect.

                      Don't force your theology on the text.

                      Acts 5:31 says that Jesus was sent to Israel only, which is true, but He was sent to give them the opportunity to repent, but they did not. That is why Paul then turned to give that opportunity to the Gentiles, because Israel rejected that opportunity.

                      Matt 11.21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that occurred in you had occurred in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

                      Acts 13.46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

                      ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,

                      to bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’g

                      48When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

                      Ephesians 1.4 describes how the world is saved, not who is saved. We were chosen to be saved through Christ, who was slain before the foundation of the world.

                      Adam was selfish and suspicious, like all the creatures of the natural world, necessary for survival. How can sinful Adam be in the presence of God, because only the pure can see God? Because he was IN the Garden, IN Christ.
                      Last edited by footwasher; 05-13-2021, 11:31 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                        This is called eisegesis. The text does not say that repentance is given only to the elect.

                        Don't force your theology on the text.

                        Acts 5:31 says that Jesus was sent to Israel only, which is true, but He was sent to give them the opportunity to repent, but they did not. That is why Paul then turned to give that opportunity to the Gentiles, because Israel rejected that opportunity.

                        Matt 11.21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that occurred in you had occurred in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

                        Acts 13.46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

                        ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,

                        to bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’g

                        48When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

                        Ephesians 1.4 describes how the world is saved, not who is saved. We were chosen to be saved through Christ, who was slain before the foundation of the world.

                        Adam was selfish and suspicious, like all the creatures of the natural world, necessary for survival. How can sinful Adam be in the presence of God, because only the pure can see God? Because he was IN the Garden, IN Christ.
                        Did you understand the post ? Lets discuss its points.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                          Did you understand the post ? Lets discuss its points.
                          Ok. You can start. State one point first. We must finish it before changing the subject.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                            Ok. You can start. State one point first. We must finish it before changing the subject.
                            I already started. What do you see ?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                              I already started. What do you see ?
                              I see a question asking if I see the points. Yes I see them. Now pick one and try to support it with Scripture. Tell me, is English your foreign language?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                                I see a question asking if I see the points. Yes I see them. Now pick one and try to support it with Scripture. Tell me, is English your foreign language?
                                You scared to discuss my points friend !

                                Comment

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