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Repentance is the Gift Of God !

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  • #31
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, the Scripture says "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent."
    It's clear that Jesus considered the Syro-Phoenician woman not eligible to receive grace, which Chorazin and Bethesda received, yet these cities did not repent, never mind in ashes. In other words, even though Israel was not the greatest of nations, wisest of countries, even though they had nothing to boast about, they received all the benefits of a favored nation: by grace, overlooking their inadequacies.

    And Jesus was quoting Isaiah saying "make this peoples' heart hard, lest they turn and be healed.

    So without this hardening, they would have turned and been healed, and not remained disobedient.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    We know that Israel was given the favored nation status arbitrarily, but this went against the justice of God. To balance this partiality, Israel was hardened, so that she would be given over to disobedience, and her future forgiveness would be the same as that given to Gentiles, by grace, overlooking her disobedience, by mercy:

    Rom 11.25For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written:

    “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,

    HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”

    27“THIS IS [k]MY COVENANT WITH THEM,

    WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.” 28In relation to the gospel they are enemies on your account, but in relation to God’s choice they are beloved on account of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all.

    33Oh, the depth of the riches, [l]both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?


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    • #32
      Hi footwasher, I don't see how your replies are replying to my actual points.

      Blessings,
      Lee
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
        Hi footwasher, I don't see how your replies are replying to my actual points.

        Blessings,
        Lee
        Acts 18.27When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

        You are saying belief is a gift.

        The text is simply saying the disciples in Achaia had come to the faith by God including Gentiles in His People.

        Ephesians 2.1And [a]you [b]were dead [c]in your offenses and sins, 2in which you previously walked according to the [d]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the [e]sons of disobedience. 3Among them [f]we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, [g]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [h]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead [i]in our wrongdoings, made us alive together [j]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the [k]boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by footwasher View Post
          Acts 18.27When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers and sisters encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. When he arrived, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

          You are saying belief is a gift.

          The text is simply saying the disciples in Achaia had come to the faith by God including Gentiles in His People.
          Well, I think that includes both Jewish and Gentile believers in Achaia, in Berea, for example:

          "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

          So when we read "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent", we can see that faith is a gift.

          "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

          So being saved by grace through faith is all a gift from God, and not of ourselves.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            Well, I think that includes both Jewish and Gentile believers in Achaia, in Berea, for example:

            "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

            So when we read "who by grace had believed", not "by grace were given an opportunity to repent", we can see that faith is a gift.

            "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

            So being saved by grace through faith is all a gift from God, and not of ourselves.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            Well I also showed that Israel was shown grace, the privilege of seeing signs that should cause repentance, being born again, but only Caleb drank and produced vegetation, had a different spirit, was born again, and was saved.

            So grace doesn't automatically lead to salvation.

            Grace only means inclusion, opportunity, being given a formal covenant:

            Ep 2.11Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, [m]excluded from [n]the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who previously were far away [o]have been brought near [p]by the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [q]barrier of the dividing wall, 15[r]by abolishing [s]in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [t]make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; 16and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [u]by it having put to death the hostility. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the [v]saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [w]temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

            Comment


            • #36
              Are Faith and Repentance evangelical truths that must be preached ? The answer is absolutely yes, Jesus said Lk 24:47

              And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

              So its no doubt that sound Gospel preaching includes repentance. However where men go wrong is when they make repentance and or faith conditions for Justification before God ! They say that men and women for whom Christ died are not justified, made righteous before God without them ! They are in essence saying that everything Christ did for them in His Person and Work fell short in making them righteous/justified before God.1b

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                Are Faith and Repentance evangelical truths that must be preached ? The answer is absolutely yes, Jesus said Lk 24:47

                And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

                So its no doubt that sound Gospel preaching includes repentance. However where men go wrong is when they make repentance and or faith conditions for Justification before God ! They say that men and women for whom Christ died are not justified, made righteous before God without them ! They are in essence saying that everything Christ did for them in His Person and Work fell short in making them righteous/justified before God.1b
                Please be reasonable.

                If people are given repentance as a gift, why preach repentance?

                If I say a person has been given obedience as a gift and is now paying taxes honestly, why should I place advertisements in the newspaper requesting people to pay taxes?
                ​​​​​

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  Please be reasonable.

                  If people are given repentance as a gift, why preach repentance?

                  If I say a person has been given obedience as a gift and is now paying taxes honestly, why should I place advertisements in the newspaper requesting people to pay taxes?
                  ​​​​​
                  Jesus said preach repentance, is that reasonable enough ? Lk 24:46-47



                  46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

                  47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                    So grace doesn't automatically lead to salvation.
                    Agreed...

                    Grace only means inclusion, opportunity, being given a formal covenant...
                    Well, it could mean that, let's examine Scripture, and see if there is a clear indication that God must move through his grace, in order for people to be saved. I believe there is:

                    “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (Jn 6:44)

                    Note that drawing here means they come, for all who are drawn here will be raised up at the last day.

                    Blessiings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                      Jesus said preach repentance, is that reasonable enough ? Lk 24:46-47



                      46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

                      47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
                      In English, preaching repentance means repentance isn't a gift.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        Agreed...
                        If you agree, it means repentance is not a gift. God graciously reaches out to people. When they respond, He gives them the faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, like He gave to Abraham and Israel. He gave them bread from heaven, rescued them from Pharoah and other dangers, showing He could be trusted. Abraham drank and produced vegetation, FAITH, and when He was tested for his trust in God, he passed. Israel was tested, and except for Caleb, all the rest failed. Caleb repented, meta-noia-ed, had a different spirit, was born again, because he chose to remember the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Search for 'they forgot' in Biblehub. It will show that there are several lamentations about how Israel 'forgot'. The texts also say these things were recorded for our benefit, so that we should learn from their mistakes, and not end up like them, who because of unbelief, not repenting (our responsibility, not God's) could not enter Rest, be IN CHRIST.
                        Well, it could mean that, let's examine Scripture, and see if there is a clear indication that God must move through his grace, in order for people to be saved. I believe there is:

                        “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (Jn 6:44)

                        Note that drawing here means they come, for all who are drawn here will be raised up at the last day.

                        Blessiings,
                        Lee
                        Sure, God reached out to every person in the world, hoping they might seek Him:


                        Acts 17.26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ b As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
                        ...

                        Isaac and his children lived futile lives in Canaan. God gave Joseph a dream which resulted in Israel going to Egypt, and becoming slaves. This was to show Israel that her life consisted of exploiting each other for gains that rusted and perished. It was the same life as in Canaan, but in Egypt, everything was highlighted, the unrewarding gains, resulting from serving the world, by acting selfishly and oppressing one other as opposed to receiving treasure that does not perish, by serving God, in doing good deeds, that didn't hurt the conscience. Abraham was reached out to by God, and he agreed it was not a situation that was fit for those made in the image of God, who were uncomfortable with living lives exploiting each other, and longed for a proper situation, suitable for humanity, and God was not ashamed to be called his God, and promised to make him a blessing to the world, by putting him in that proper situation, in the Promised Land, in Christ.


                        However, not everybody wanted to go this route. They loved the darkness, avoiding God, and His revelation. They wanted to live comfortable lives, walk the easy and broad path, and used the world system to achieve this. Isn't this what happens when you tell people their lives lead to gains that rust and perish, but they refuse to repent, turn away from the world system, to God?


                        Those who were attracted to God's message were given to Christ, like Cornelius. God could have led Cornelius to any belief system, even Judaism, but He led him to Christ.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                          If you agree, it means repentance is not a gift.
                          Well, no, we were discussing if grace automatically leads to salvation. That is a separate issue from the question of whether repentance is a gift.

                          Sure, God reached out to every person in the world, hoping they might seek Him...
                          But God knows the future, right? He doesn't have to hope, he knows who will refuse him, and who will trust him. And God chooses people, he doesn't simply offer salvation:

                          "So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." (Ro 11:5)

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            Well, no, we were discussing if grace automatically leads to salvation. That is a separate issue from the question of whether repentance is a gift.
                            Grace involves gifts. If I go to a party forgetting it is a black tie event, and the host waves me in, it is a gift, a manifestation of his graciousness.

                            Israel required punishment, just like the rest of the world. In His grace, God overlooked Israel's inadequacy, and waved her in, by giving her a favoured nation status. He gave her an opportunity to repent, not repentance, there is a difference. So if grace automatically leads to salvation, and salvation is dependent on repentance, then repentance is involved in discussions on whether grace automatically leads to salvation.

                            But God knows the future, right? He doesn't have to hope, he knows who will refuse him, and who will trust him. And God chooses people, he doesn't simply offer salvation:

                            "So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." (Ro 11:5)

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            The text says God never knew if Abraham would refuse Him:

                            Genesis 22.11But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 12He said, “Do not reach out your hand against the boy, and do not do anything to him; for now I know that you [c]fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

                            According to the understanding, everybody had to wear a black tie, observe all the Law.

                            God was gracious. He chose to forgive those people who believed it. He didn't forgive the people who didn't.

                            Matthew 23:23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

                            If He had applied the understanding by its letter, Israel would long ago have gone the way of Sodom, of Gomorrah.

                            Rom 11.6But if it is by grace, it is no longer [e]on the basis of works, since otherwise grace is no longer grace.

                            Last edited by footwasher; 02-23-2021, 08:08 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              In Gospel preaching, instead of faith/repentance being conditions man must perform in order for God to justify them or make them righteous, they are to be acknowledged and received as Spiritual Blessings from Christ being risen as their Savor, along with remission of sins, as Peter points out in his sermon Acts 5:31

                              Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


                              The greek word give is the the verb didōmi and means:
                              1. to give something to someone
                                1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
                                  1. to bestow a gift
                              1. to supply, furnish, necessary things

                                The giving of these things are necessary in constituting Christ a Savior from sin !

                                Faith and Repentance are necessary furnishings to do the will of God !2b

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                                In Gospel preaching, instead of faith/repentance being conditions man must perform in order for God to justify them or make them righteous, they are to be acknowledged and received as Spiritual Blessings from Christ being risen as their Savor, along with remission of sins, as Peter points out in his sermon Acts 5:31

                                Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


                                The greek word give is the the verb didōmi and means:
                                1. to give something to someone
                                  1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
                                    1. to bestow a gift
                                1. to supply, furnish, necessary things

                                  The giving of these things are necessary in constituting Christ a Savior from sin !

                                  Faith and Repentance are necessary furnishings to do the will of God !2b
                                Sorry, Israel was given repentance? How come she did not believe? How come she was cut off?

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