The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Dave L]

Correct. You move from faithless to faith.



I need to choose to sit down at my computer, yes.



And those who choose it receive it. All are capable of choosing, yet not all choose Christ.

The point is, if you experience salvation by grace, it causes you to believe. If you must choose to believe, it's because you haven't experienced salvation by grace and do not believe. You must force yourself to believe with the flesh and human faith cannot save.

[footwasher]

You started it.

No. I did not start a child's game. I asked a serious question, "What is the weakness in my argument?" when you tried to change the subject.

No a child's game is, when I ask what is the weakness you have found in my argument, when you try to change the subject and you answer with "Answer me where you have gone right". In an adult debate, like between William Lane Craig and Shabbir Ali, they don't say, "Answer me where you have been right first, because I asked first". There is no game like that in the adult world.

This is another attempt to change the subject.

A sign of a person losing a discussion.

Show some maturity and don't change the subject, and don't resort to childish tactics.

[Bill the Cat]

If you must choose to believe, it is because you don't believe.

Correct. You move from faithless to faith.

Do you need to choose to believe you are sitting at your computer?

I need to choose to sit down at my computer, yes.

Of course not. You experience it. And those who experience salvation know they are saved.

And those who choose it receive it. All are capable of choosing, yet not all choose Christ.

[brightfame52]

That's a child's game. If you want a good discussion, don't avoid issues, don't change the subject.

However, if you are not mature enough to minister to me, I will forgive you and will agree to minister to you by washing your feet.

Do you want an opportunity to show your maturity or not?

You started it.

[footwasher]

Please show where you have gone right first.

That's a child's game. If you want a good discussion, don't avoid issues, don't change the subject.

However, if you are not mature enough to minister to me, I will forgive you and will agree to minister to you by washing your feet.

Do you want an opportunity to show your maturity or not?

[Dave L]

Rubbish. John 3:16 is clear.



Utterly false. Faith is not works. Belief is not works. Hope is not works.



Neither did faith in the OT. See Hebrews "Hall of Faith". Jesus' death and resurrection provided the key to salvation, which was unavailable even to the faithful before it happened. Once the Lord arose, a person's faith in Christ was salvific.



True, that's what faith is about. A realization that we are not enough, and that we need the Savior to save us. We trust that He is faithful to save any who come. That's pistis



False again. One can believe in Christ even before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. See the Gentiles in Acts. The Spirit woos everyone to come to faith. We either agree or disagree. That's what love is. Not spiritual rape, forcing us to love God...

If you must choose to believe, it is because you don't believe. Do you need to choose to believe you are sitting at your computer? Of course not. You experience it. And those who experience salvation know they are saved.

[Bill the Cat]

Choosing to believe cannot save anyone.

Rubbish. John 3:16 is clear.

It is legalism and obedience (works) to a supposed law that cannot save.

Utterly false. Faith is not works. Belief is not works. Hope is not works.

This is why the Law in the OT saved nobody.

Neither did faith in the OT. See Hebrews "Hall of Faith". Jesus' death and resurrection provided the key to salvation, which was unavailable even to the faithful before it happened. Once the Lord arose, a person's faith in Christ was salvific.

The truth is, nobody can grasp spiritual truth unless born-again.

True, that's what faith is about. A realization that we are not enough, and that we need the Savior to save us. We trust that He is faithful to save any who come. That's pistis

This is why only those saved by grace can believe in the true Christ.

False again. One can believe in Christ even before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. See the Gentiles in Acts. The Spirit woos everyone to come to faith. We either agree or disagree. That's what love is. Not spiritual rape, forcing us to love God...

[brightfame52]

Redeemed from the curse of the Law !

Those Christ died for are consequently saved, redeemed from the curse of the Law. Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now it tells us specifically how these believers were redeemed from the curse of the Law. Succinctly stated "being made a curse for us:" This refers to His death, its the same as when he wrote to the Church at Corinthians these words "For he hath made him to be sin for us"

So anyone for whom Christ died, has been redeemed from the curse of the Law.

So when Jesus shall say to these Matt 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Its absolutely impossible any of these on left hand, can be anyone Christ was made sin or a curse for !29

[brightfame52]

I repeat:

If we obey our nobler side, our spiritual side, we will bear fruit (Gal 5:22-25).

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22–25 (KJV 1900)

They have crucified the flesh, they, not any external force, they are now living according to their spiritual side, so they are encouraged to also walk in it. Notice, they are not advised to wait for an external force to make them walk in it, it is their own motive power which is being appealed to.

Please show where I have gone wrong. Don't jump to other issues till you are done here.

Please show where you have gone right first.

[Dave L]

The elect are all who are already saved. And because God is outside of our linear time, God foreknew would choose to believe.

Choosing to believe cannot save anyone. It is legalism and obedience (works) to a supposed law that cannot save. This is why the Law in the OT saved nobody. The truth is, nobody can grasp spiritual truth unless born-again. This is why only those saved by grace can believe in the true Christ.

[Bill the Cat]

But only the elect believe in him by grace. Do you know what grace means?

The elect are all who are already saved. And because God is outside of our linear time, God foreknew would choose to believe.

[Dave L]

And just before that:

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.

God gave Jesus EVERYTHING, did He not?

Matt 11:27 All things have been handed over to Me by My Father

But only the elect believe in him by grace. Do you know what grace means?

[Bill the Cat]

This had nothing to do with salvation. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)

And just before that:

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.

God gave Jesus EVERYTHING, did He not?

Matt 11:27 All things have been handed over to Me by My Father

[Bill the Cat]

Faith is the substance of the thing hoped for.

Yeah.

[Dave L]

No, it was the inhabitants of the city.



Again, God's desire thwarted by unbelief. Goodbye Irresistible Grace....



It has everything to do with salvation. 70 AD was basically pointless to salvation. The Temple was rendered ineffective at the cross, with the rending of the veil, so the Romans just destroyed an irrelivant building.

This had nothing to do with salvation. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)