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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    Even the ability to come to Christ in faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people the Grace to believe in His name Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

    Gal 6:14

    14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.59
    There is nothing in those Scripture quotes which says God made some people follow Jesus, and made others not to follow Him.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Satan quotes scripture. But you need to harmonize scripture before you can understand it. You are choosing and picking only some scripture that bolsters your position. If you want to learn if your position is true or not, you need all pertinent scripture, not just the ones you like. God sends strong delusion to those who do not love the truth. And they also ignore the scriptures they do not like.
    What Scripture am I ignoring?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Even the ability to come to Christ in faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people the Grace to believe in His name Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

    Gal 6:14

    14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.59

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    That's funny. I'm quoting Scripture, and you're saying it's not Scriptural.

    Ephesians 2.7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it a says:

    “When he ascended on high,

    he took many captives

    and gave gifts to his people.” b

    9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions c ? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.


    The gift is not the Holy Spirit. To be a gift, something must be given free. But the Holy Spirit is not given freely. It is given only on being loyal, hearing and believing.

    The real gifts are the gifts of solving problems, picking up crosses and being raised up by God, taking up difficult matters for explanation and having the explanation given by God:

    ​​​​​​Mark 13.11And when they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you at that time; for you are not the ones speaking, but it is the Holy Spirit.
    Satan quotes scripture. But you need to harmonize scripture before you can understand it. You are choosing and picking only some scripture that bolsters your position. If you want to learn if your position is true or not, you need all pertinent scripture, not just the ones you like. God sends strong delusion to those who do not love the truth. And they also ignore the scriptures they do not like.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    This is not biblical. You need to study the scriptures and stop adding to them.
    That's funny. I'm quoting Scripture, and you're saying it's not Scriptural.

    Ephesians 2.7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it a says:

    “When he ascended on high,

    he took many captives

    and gave gifts to his people.” b

    9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions c ? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.


    The gift is not the Holy Spirit. To be a gift, something must be given free. But the Holy Spirit is not given freely. It is given only on being loyal, hearing and believing.

    The real gifts are the gifts of solving problems, picking up crosses and being raised up by God, taking up difficult matters for explanation and having the explanation given by God:

    ​​​​​​Mark 13.11And when they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you at that time; for you are not the ones speaking, but it is the Holy Spirit.
    Last edited by footwasher; 01-27-2021, 07:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Those are not gifts. That is the giving of the Holy Spirit. Which is by hearing and believing. The gifts are given in the Kingdom, after passing the test of faith. We must not fall short.

    Heb 4.1Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
    This is not biblical. You need to study the scriptures and stop adding to them.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    He gave them only through the apostle's hands (besides the two outpourings). They ceased when the apostles died, even before that.
    Those are not gifts. That is the giving of the Holy Spirit. Which is by hearing and believing. The gifts are given in the Kingdom, after passing the test of faith. We must not fall short.

    Heb 4.1Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
    Last edited by footwasher; 01-27-2021, 11:23 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    The texts I quoted say that Christ gave gifts to His people, those inside the Kingdom. These gifted people could solve difficult Scripture, pick up crosses and be raised up, which made the ungifted, like you and me, want to come into the Kingdom.

    The incidents you referred to has nothing to do with the matter I posted about.
    He gave them only through the apostle's hands (besides the two outpourings). They ceased when the apostles died, even before that.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    You are cherry-picking scripture to support your indoctrination. Only the Apostles (apart from the two outpourings) had the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts. And only those they laid hands on had the same. Except they could not pass them to others. “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)
    The texts I quoted say that Christ gave gifts to His people, those inside the Kingdom. These gifted people could solve difficult Scripture, pick up crosses and be raised up, which made the ungifted, like you and me, want to come into the Kingdom.

    The incidents you referred to has nothing to do with the matter I posted about.
    Last edited by footwasher; 01-27-2021, 10:03 AM.

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  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    No, I really mean it: it shocks people that weak believers can explain difficult problems, both in Scripture, as well as about life. They can only explain it as God being behind the sign.

    Cor 14.23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

    Ephesians 4.8This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people."
    You are cherry-picking scripture to support your indoctrination. Only the Apostles (apart from the two outpourings) had the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts. And only those they laid hands on had the same. Except they could not pass them to others. “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:18 (KJV 1900)

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    I like your "sanctified" insults. They say more than anything else.
    No, I really mean it: it shocks people that weak believers can explain difficult problems, both in Scripture, as well as about life. They can only explain it as God being behind the sign.

    Cor 14.23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

    Ephesians 4.8This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people."

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Actually, it may be an advantage to be weak. People will be even more convinced God is with you.

    Acts 4.13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

    2 Cor 12.7Because of the extraordinary greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to [b]torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8Concerning this I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast [c]about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I delight in weaknesses, in [d]insults, in distresses, in persecutions, in difficulties, in behalf of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
    I like your "sanctified" insults. They say more than anything else.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    Many in the forums say nothing I consider to be worth investing time in. So I might grab one paragraph and comment on that. No offence, but I have many similar challenges in different forums.
    Actually, it may be an advantage to be weak. People will be even more convinced God is with you.

    Acts 4.13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

    2 Cor 12.7Because of the extraordinary greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to [b]torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8Concerning this I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast [c]about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10Therefore I delight in weaknesses, in [d]insults, in distresses, in persecutions, in difficulties, in behalf of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave L
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    That's the problem. If you can't understand long posts, how can you understand the Bible? 66 books, over 2000 years in the making.

    You really need prayer.
    Many in the forums say nothing I consider to be worth investing time in. So I might grab one paragraph and comment on that. No offence, but I have many similar challenges in different forums.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave L View Post

    I ignore long posts. So I'll give a blanket response. How do you expect people to believe you about Christ when all they see are empty claims of miracles with zero documentation?
    That's the problem. If you can't understand long posts, how can you understand the Bible? 66 books, over 2000 years in the making.

    You really need prayer.

    Leave a comment:

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