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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    Christs Intercession and Advocacy are efficacious benefits for any and all for whom Christ died 1 Jn 2:1-2

    My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Being a propitiation for our sins is another way of saying He died for us, so He lives to be our Intercessor and Advocate/paraklētos.
    1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
    2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
      1. of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins

    He can successfully plea on behalf of those He died for, because the sins they are committing He has satisfied Gods Justice for

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Those for whom Christ died, are ensured of Salvation because He liveth to make intercession for them.

    Rom 8:32-34

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    Nothing in this chain events has anything to do with what the sinner did.

    Those who Christ died for are automatically beneficiaries of His Intercession for them

    Isa 53:12

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    If you notice He made intercession for not believers, but transgressors. and why? Because for them He poured out his soul unto death.

    The word transgressors mean: to rebel, transgress, revolt

    Heb 7:25

    25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

    So those He died for, He lives evermore, makes intercession for them, which ensures them being saved to the uttermost.

    Therefore, all for whom Christ died, and rose again in behalf of, He intercedes for them, ensuring their conversion. 25

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    Christs Death produces Saving results because its the death that effects the Blood of the New Covenant. Matt 26:28

    28 For this is my blood of the new testament/covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    This New Covenant Death has promises connected to it, these promises are unconditional, not conditioned on what the recipients [the many] have to meet, For Christ met all the conditions.

    Under the Old Covenant, the recipients broke that Covenant Heb 8:7-12

    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    Jer 31:32

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    So this covenant has no conditions to perform, and its saving because it effects #1 Remission/forgiveness of sins. No conditions, because God has promised to forgive all their sins:

    Heb 8:12

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    This is the same forgiveness spoken of in Matt 26:28

    28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    The regeneration of those that Christ died for, is due to Christs resurrection from the dead, Peter writes 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The prep "by" here is dia and means:

    : through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

    The words begotten us again is the word anagennaó:


    /aná, "up, again," which intensifies 1080 /gennáō, "give birth") – properly, born-again or "born from on high."

    313 /anagennáō ("born again, from above") is used twice in the NT (1 Pet 1:3,23) – both times referring to God regenerating a believer (giving a supernatural, new birth).

    to produce again, beget again, beget anew; metaphorically: τινα, thoroughly to change the mind of one, so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God, 1 Peter 1:3;

    Strong's Greek: 313. ἀναγεννάω (anagennaó) -- to beget again
    Thats were our believing comes from, thats part of the newness of life

    Christs death put away our sins, hence justice satisfied, new life is given ! 25

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    All for whom Christ died will be born again anew. When He died, those He died for were in union with Him, similar to how when Adam sin and died they died with him because in union with him. And so likewise when Christ was raised from the dead, they in union with Him were raised also with Him, and it will be made evident by giving them also newness of life, or the new birth.

    Rom 6:4-5

    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

    Now if we don't believe in this union with Christ, when He died, we died, when He arose with Him in union, then, if we believe in water baptism, that's what we are publicly saying, that we we were in union with Him, as He was our federal representative. And so His resurrection from the dead typifies our sure spiritual resurrection from the dead into newness of life! So blessed are they who have part in the first resurrection!

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    The results of the saving death of Christ is redemptive and so it effects the gathering of all Gods chosen people from around the world Ps 107:1-3

    O give thanks unto the Lord, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

    2 Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

    3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.

    Remember the high priest words in Jn 11 how that Christ should die and gather the children of God scattered abroad, and not just from the nation israel ? Jn 11:50-52

    50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

    51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

    This gathering together of the people of God is the fruit and success of the redemptive , saving death of Christ.25

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    Both Faith and Repentance are the fruit of Christs Death and our reconciliation to Him. All for whom He died have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    So that reconciliation will be manifested by us returning to God, which entails Faith and Repentance. Peter writes of that here 1 Pet 2:24-25

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    The word returned here is the word epistrephō:

    And its in the passive voice,
    1. to cause to return, to bring back
      1. to the love and obedience of God
      2. to the love for the children
      3. to love wisdom and righteousness

    This is describing our conversion in Faith and repentance towards God. The saving death of Christ is responsible for our turning to God.
    Unable to answer my question? ;)

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Both Faith and Repentance are the fruit of Christs Death and our reconciliation to Him. All for whom He died have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    So that reconciliation will be manifested by us returning to God, which entails Faith and Repentance. Peter writes of that here 1 Pet 2:24-25

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

    The word returned here is the word epistrephō:

    And its in the passive voice,
    1. to cause to return, to bring back
      1. to the love and obedience of God
      2. to the love for the children
      3. to love wisdom and righteousness

    This is describing our conversion in Faith and repentance towards God. The saving death of Christ is responsible for our turning to God.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    John 6
    63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

    John 6.25-63 is about how the crowd misunderstood what Jesus was doing.

    What did they misunderstand?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Let's be clear. You've made unfound accusation that the posts were rabbit trails. Long explanations with off topic additions created to confuse. They are long, but NOT off topic.

    We are now concentrating on what 'the spirit quicken' means.

    You will be given an explanation only on my this topic and it will be short and simple. It can't be misunderstood.

    If you refuse it, it is not because it is complicated, requiring high IQ. If you refuse it, it is because you want to establish a righteousness of your own, like Chorazin and Bethsaida, who just wanted the fulfilment because they said the Scripture promised it to the chosen, the seeds of Abraham.

    It will prove you just want to stay with your own theology, and not what Scripture really teaches, seen with reason, not stubbornness.

    Short or long explanations, they still show the same information. Don't reject both:

    Matt 11
    17"We played the flute, but you would not dance! We sang a funeral song, but you would not mourn!"



    20Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. e For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    Glad you admit that what you posted proves its a long rabbit trail
    Okay, so it seems you're still not convinced.

    The Urban dictionary defines it as rabbit trail: veering off subject or of the point of the conversation. A story or explanation leading nowhere. making statements with no real purpose just for the sake of stating it.
    No problem, it just gives me more opportunity to prove you wrong with short explanations.

    You said that the spirit quickens, implying that the Holy Spirit is like a lightning bolt that charges your battery.

    Would you agree that what Jesus meant is that His WORDS contained life?

    That His explanations of Scripture were like the miracles that God did in the Exodus wilderness, that caused Caleb to be born again?
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-20-2022, 04:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Glad you believe it is enough proof of a correct understanding. Now make haste to enter the Kingdom, by building up your faith, by drinking from the Rock, by believing that the Kingdom can be entered if you have the right amount of faith.

    If after you see the explanation of Scripture, done with the help of the finger of God, you still don't believe, you'll be like those who did not have enough oil for their lamps, or the right wedding garments required to stay in the wedding hall.

    Matt 11
    21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
    Glad you admit that what you posted proves its a long rabbit trail

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    You proving it is enough lol
    Glad you believe it is enough proof of a correct understanding. Now make haste to enter the Kingdom, by building up your faith, by drinking from the Rock, by believing that the Kingdom can be entered if you have the right amount of faith.

    If after you see the explanation of Scripture, done with the help of the finger of God, you still don't believe, you'll be like those who did not have enough oil for their lamps, or the right wedding garments required to stay in the wedding hall.

    Matt 11
    21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-19-2022, 01:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    You have to prove it is a rabbit trail, not correct.

    I showed you, repeatedly, from Scripture, what happens when we believe God's word, that a promised land/Kingdom has come near us, can be entered, which were also Jesus' words:

    ​​​​​Luke 11
    20But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    Which Paul said needed to be believed, in order to receive the Holy Spirit:

    Acts 19
    4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

    Which would create faith in the hearers, if they believed:

    ​​​​​​Heb 6
    7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

    1 Cor 10
    1I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness.

    Even Christ had to receive the Holy Spirit, the faith creating ministry through suffering and rescue, cross and resurrection, and learn to have faith in God's ability to rescue, in order to have enough faith to be obedient, to attempt to do great works, pick up crosses every day, and finally attempt the eponymous task at Calvary.

    Heb 5
    8Although He was the Son, He still had to learn obedience from suffering

    You only gave a weak example of Scripture, which can be interpreted in zillion different ways, of what happens when we believe.

    This shows that you don't know what the Gospel is, never heard the right Gospel, therefore couldn't believe, in turn never received the Holy Spirit, like I and others in the Scripture record did.

    Besides, how do you know that you are living spiritually? What if you are behaving better because you don't want to go to hell, and you think Scripture teaches you will become a better person if you really believe and receive the Holy Spirit?

    In other words you may be trying to prove it by acting good, when in fact believing the Gospel leads to being baptised into an experience, called Moses or Christ, as 1 Cor 19 shows, drinking from Christ, which is synecdoche for cross and resurrection, suffering, and needing to learn from it, learn God always rescues, even from the most difficult problem, death, as 1 Cor 15 shows:

    ​​​​​​1 Cor 15
    3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve. 6After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth.
    ​​​​​​
    Quote
    Instead, the aim is to get the viewer to examine himself and thereby to move him to try hard to strive to be on the narrow road. The way to everlasting life and to avoid waking up in hell, according to this video, is to try our best to be on the narrow road. Live the best life you can and maybe you will avoid hell.

    This is a sad video from one perspective, from the perspective of those who think that this is the good news of Jesus Christ. However, for those of us who believe the promise of life and hence are sure that we will never wake up in hell, we can rejoice that God has shown us the truth. And we can and should seek ways to share the promise of life with all who will listen.

    https://faithalone.org/blog/must-see...ke-up-in-hell/
    You proving it is enough lol

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    How do you know you are saved? What if you are only imagining you have a new life? What if people can't see you are different, like Nicodemus saw that Jesus was different, like Rahab saw that Caleb was different, had had a different spirit, was born again, so that they could have God with them, stand in God's presence, be able to do great works,, which God prepared in advance for us to do, (Ep 2.10, John 9.1-5, 1 Cor 14.23-25) like explain Scripture, with strong proofs, open spiritual eyes, open blind eyes, and bless the world, be a light guiding it back to God?

    John 3
    Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

    John 9
    1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

    3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”



    What if, instead, you are like Sproul? Who didn't know what the right Gospel was?

    Quote
    Dr. R. C. Sproul is a very articulate spokesman for the view that assurance is not certainty. A few years back he described his own struggles with assurance, and in so doing he explained his view of assurance:
    There are people in this world who are not saved, but who are convinced that they are. The presence of such people causes genuine Christians to doubt their salvation. After all, we wonder, suppose I am in that category? Suppose I am mistaken about my salvation and am really going to hell? How can I know that I am a real Christian?

    A while back I had one of those moments of acute self-awareness that we have from time to time, and suddenly the question hit me: “R.C., what if you are not one of the redeemed? What if your destiny is not heaven after all, but hell?” Let me tell you that I was flooded in my body with a chill that went from my head to the bottom of my spine. I was terrified.

    I tried to grab hold of myself. I thought, “Well, it’s a good sign that I’m worried about this. Only true Christians really care about salvation.” But then I began to take stock of my life, and I looked at my performance. My sins came pouring into my mind, and the more I looked at myself, the worse I felt. I thought, “Maybe it’s really true. Maybe I’m not saved after all.”

    I went to my room and began to read the Bible. On my knees I said, “Well, here I am. I can’t point to my obedience. There’s nothing I can offer. I can only rely on Your atonement for my sins. I can only throw myself on Your mercy.” Even then I knew that some people only flee to the Cross to escape hell, not out of a real turning to God. I could not be sure about my own heart and motivation. Then I remembered John 6:68. Jesus had been giving out hard teaching, and many of His former followers had left Him. When He asked Peter if he was also going to leave, Peter said, “Where else can I go? Only You have the words of eternal life.” In other words, Peter was also uncomfortable, but he realized that being uncomfortable with Jesus was better than any other option!




    https://faithalone.org/journal-artic...not-assurance/
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-16-2022, 09:37 PM.

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