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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
    God's People are those in the Kingdom. Make haste to enter. Believe the Kingdom has come amongst men, which is the Gospel. Receive the Holy Spirit: the edifying experiences that teach God always save. Today tongues edify. Do not forget these experiences. Next, when you hear His voice, use the obedience you learned from receiving the Holy Spirit, like Abraham who obeyed, like Caleb who obeyed, like Jesus, who, even though He was a Son, learned obedience from suffering. Learning from the ministry of the Holy Spirit is what is meant by being born again, having a different Spirit, being changed, meta-ed, as in meta noia.

    Of course, if you have never heard the correct Gospel (because most churches are run by simple minded people who don't want to hear a deep message) that the Kingdom has been prepared, that there are many rooms in Jesus's Father's Kingdom that you can occupy, rest in, like Moses rested in the cleft, and could see God, and be the light drawing people out of Egypt by doing great works, you would never be able to believe, and receive those life changing experiences, the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    So the first step is to hear the correct Gospel.
    Last edited by footwasher; 12-05-2021, 05:34 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    Post 395 do you understand what Im saying ?
    Nicodemus asked Jesus how to stand in the presence of God, do great works that brought God's sheep back to Him, to earn treasure that was eternal, did not rust and perish.

    Jesus gave him with the solution: Nicodemus had to be in the Kingdom, which had come near, amongst men, so that he could have God be with him, by being pure, because only the pure can see Him, stand in the presence of God, ascend His holy mountain, and do the things by the finger of God.

    To enter the Kingdom, we have to be like Caleb, not like Israel, who, even though they received the Holy Spirit, drank from the Rock, could not enter Rest, because they never learned from the things revealed to them.

    Heb 6
    7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

    Psalm 106
    21They forgot the God who saved them,

    who had done great things in Egypt,

    22miracles in the land of Ham

    and awesome deeds by the Red Sea.



    Abraham was rescued from King Abhimelech and Pharaoh. He learned from these experiences created by the Spirit: God could rescue from any danger, so we should pick up crosses everyday, so that when we are lifted up from the earth, it will cause people to want to come to God.

    Caleb learned from the experience of being saved from Pharaoh, hunger and thirst.

    Jesus learned obedience from suffering at the hands of Herod, hunger and thirst.

    When tested, they obeyed, and could enter Rest.

    Law could not accuse them because Jesus had nailed the Law (Himself!) to the Cross. They were in the Kingdom, where there is no Law. They could walk with God, and do great works which God prepared in advance for them to do, to be lights guiding God's sheep back to Him:

    John 9
    1As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4We must carry out the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”


    Do you agree?
    Last edited by footwasher; 12-05-2021, 05:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    Post 395 do you understand what Im saying ?
    Adam was High Priest through being able to walk with God, in turn through being sinless. Because he did not know good from evil, he could not be accused of sin. Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

    Rom 4
    15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

    Jesus was also anointed as High Priest, in the order of Melchizedek, without any genealogy.

    The High Priest represented humanity. What he did represented what humanity did. When Caiaphas rejected Jesus as Messiah, it was as if Israel disobeyed.

    However, the text says that when a High Priest dies, all the people who ran away to escape crime could come back to Jerusalem:

    Joshua 20
    6And he shall remain in that city until he stands before the congregation for judgment, until the death of the one who is high priest in those days. Then [f]he shall [g]return to his own city and to his own house, to the city from which he fled.’”

    So when God asked Jesus to go to the Cross, He basically removed the Law from affecting believers, because the one who was administering the law had died.

    If a President passes an ordinance making it a punishable crime to go out in public without a face mask, and then that President is not re-elected, that law disappears.

    This is how the Cross makes it possible for believers to walk with God in the Kingdom, because God made them sinless by removing law in the Kingdom.

    Zec 3
    8Now listen, Joshua, you high priest, you and your friends who are sitting in front of you—indeed they are men who are a sign: for behold, I am going to bring in My servant the [d]Branch. 9For behold, the stone that I have put before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I am going to engrave an inscription on it,’ declares the LORD of armies, ‘and I will remove the guilt of that land in one day.

    That's why you should enter the Kingdom. Strong men imitating Caleb have already forced their way in. Be like Caleb, change, have a different spirit, be born again.

    Num 14
    24But as for My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring him into the land which he [l]entered, and his [m]descendants shall take possession of it.

    John 3
    3Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born [c]again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    Do you agree?
    Last edited by footwasher; 12-05-2021, 04:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    How can Christ's action affect us? In fact, how can Adam's action affect us?
    Post 395 do you understand what Im saying ?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

    Deliverance
    from the hand of our enemies, Luke 1:71-74

    71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

    72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

    73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

    74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

    This has to do with Spiritual enemies, what the carnal jews didn't understand. Jesus is a Horn of Salvation Vs 69

    69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

    By His Death He becomes the Captain of our Salvation ! This also fulfills the promise of Matt 1:21

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    Christs saving death will result in everyone He died for, receiving a Divine Call into the enjoyment of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:14-15

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Eph 1:13-14

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth[The Call], the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
    How can Christ's action affect us? In fact, how can Adam's action affect us?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Scriptures points to the saving death of Christ for them He died for. Now all for whom He died had a legal union with Him and were in Him, so that when He died, they died with Him just as they had a legal union with Adam so that when he died, they died with him. So for those in Christ when He died for them, and rose again, so too also they having died in Him, must also be raised up in newness of life Rom 6:4-6

    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

    6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    See those Christ died for shall walk in the newness of life, will be delivered from being a servant of sin, which is unbelief. In other words they for whom Christ died will be born again, partake of the renewing of the Holy Ghost Titus 3:5

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    The renewing of the Holy Ghost equates to walk in the newness of life in Rom 6:4 above.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Christs saving death will result in everyone He died for, receiving a Divine Call into the enjoyment of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:14-15

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Eph 1:13-14

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth[The Call], the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
    Off topic, but what a good digression!

    We had a member of tweb called The Arminian, who maintained a blog called The Romans Clearinghouse.

    He reminded us that the text says that from the same lump, God made two lumps of clay, one for making a vessel for dishonorable use, and another, for honorable.

    So God took people who were identified as descendants of Abraham, and divided them into two nations, and before either had done good or bad, predestined one group to good use, the other to bad.

    One group was given a contract, and identified as children. The other was not, and called 'dogs'. Children were given bread, dogs were not.

    The children had a vineyard, but always defaulted on rent, and finally the vineyard was taken away and given to 'us', not the children.

    This was because the children were chosen from the same lump, were in the same bad spiritual state as the dogs, the sheep of another flock, and their election was unfair to the other group.

    The dogs were however labelled as disobedient, because they would not become children, although proselytising was attempted. Finally, out of mercy, God made them His People.

    All of Israel was made to stumble, hardened, so that they would lose their unmerited status of children, and also be labelled as disobedient, in turn so that they could also receive mercy, when the hardening was lifted, through maybe a Damascus Road experience, like Paul.


    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
    Are you talking to yourself ?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Another one of the saving results of the death of Christ is in order that, those He died for will receive the adoption of Sons, which requires sending the Spirit into their hearts Gal 4:4-6

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    All for whom Christ died, He redeemed Gal 3:13 and each one of them will in Gods good time , will be given the Spirit into their hearts confirming, validating their adoption of Sons. They will know God as their Father !

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    When Christ died, it was to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, hence inclusive in His Death was all that was necessary to secure the intended saving effects of His death. Nothing was left up to man to do in order for His Saving Death would be fruitful, He is Saviour alone ! Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    When Christ died, it was to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, hence inclusive in His Death was all that was necessary to secure the intended saving effects of His death. Nothing was left up to man to do in order for His Saving Death would be fruitful, He is Saviour alone ! Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    Those Christ died for, He redeemed them, and purchased their release from the dominion of the law and satan and secured upon them the Spirit of Adoption Gal 4:4-6

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Christ was sent into the world to be birthed of a woman, in order to keep the law, even unto death, which death redeemed them He died for [sons]

    The word redeem exagorazō:
    1. to redeem
      1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
      2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
    2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

    See those whom Christ died for are under the dominion and power of satan Acts 26:18

    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
    Inheritance=Gifts that make us like Lights guiding people to God

    For a long time, the Bible was difficult to understand. Then Jesus came and explained everything. Nicodemus was amazed and understood that God was with Jesus, and that was why He could do what He did. And that's what he told Jesus.

    Jesus knew Nicodemus came not just to praise Him, but to find out how He could have God be with Him, be in union with God, have Eternal Life, know Him, like Joseph knew Mary. And Jesus told him that he could only do it if he was born again, and inside the Kingdom.

    Jesus told His followers that He was going to prepare places in the Kingdom for them. Different places had different gifts, that He had obtained for them.

    So when you enter the Kingdom, you are given gifts. These gifts allowed a believer to do great works, explain very difficult Scripture. When this happened, many people were drawn to God.

    So the way believers were blessings to the world, like God promised Abraham that he and his family would be, was that they would be able to pick up crosses, take up difficult tasks, that God prepared in advance, and solve them. When they did this, because God lifted them up, people were amazed and in turn wanted to follow the God who was able to make His followers blessings to the world.

    The Bible called these gifted people informed, instructed and called ungifted people, uninstructed, idiotai.


    If your explanation about a Bible idea is wonderful, amazing, then you are gifted. If not, you are uninformed.


    Which are you?


    Ep 2
    10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.


    Is 45
    7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


    Jn 9
    1As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4We must carry out the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”


    Jn 12
    32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.


    Jn 3
    1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to [a]Jesus at night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these [b]signs that You do unless God is with him.”

    Joshua 2
    8Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9and said to the men, “I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you. 10“For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11“When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.


    1 Cor 14
    24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

    Ep 4
    7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it a says:

    “When he ascended on high,

    he took many captives

    and gave gifts to his people.”
    Last edited by footwasher; 10-17-2021, 02:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Those Christ died for, He redeemed them, and purchased their release from the dominion of the law and satan and secured upon them the Spirit of Adoption Gal 4:4-6

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Christ was sent into the world to be birthed of a woman, in order to keep the law, even unto death, which death redeemed them He died for [sons]

    The word redeem exagorazō:
    1. to redeem
      1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
      2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
    2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

    See those whom Christ died for are under the dominion and power of satan Acts 26:18

    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    Col 1:13

    Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    The power of darkness here is the same as the power of satan !

    Now Christs redemptive work redeems, rescues, frees those He died for from satans dominion which includes unbelief, since satan is instrumental in men being in unbelief by blinding their minds 2 Cor 4:4

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    and being rescued, delivered they receive the Adoption of Sons, which is the Spirit.

    Christ dying for them evidenced them being sons, and causing them to receive the Sprit into their hearts.


    Fulfilling the promise Ezk 36:27

    27 And I will put my spirit[of adoption] within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Leave a comment:

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