Originally posted by brightfame52
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Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
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Originally posted by Dave L View Post
Remember in Romans 11, God removed all unbelievers from Israel and added believing Gentiles in their place. Only the unbelievers perished in the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70. Spiritual Israel (true Israel) escaped and remains as the Church today.
The Church is NOT Israel. Israel is those who have been given the Old Covenant, Jews not Gentiles. Only Jews have been given the Sinaitic Covenant. When they finally drive out the slave woman and her son, then they will again be gathered into Abraham's family.
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
Wrong. The text clearly says Israel was cut off. They would have perished, become extinct, like Sodom and Gomorrah, if God hadn't used grace, and forgiven the remnant. Even today, there is a remnant in Judaism, who are faithful, under law, fasting, tithing, keeping Sabbath, without neglecting the weightier requirements of the law, justice, mercy and faithfulness.
The Church is NOT Israel. Israel is those who have been given the Old Covenant, Jews not Gentiles. Only Jews have been given the Sinaitic Covenant. When they finally drive out the slave woman and her son, then they will again be gathered into Abraham's family.
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Originally posted by Dave L View Post
Circumcision made one a physical Jew or Physical member of Israel. Christ abolished circumcision on the cross.
Christ didn't come to abolish the Law for Israel. Not one one jot, nor one tittle of the law will pass away, till every thing is fulfilled.Last edited by footwasher; 03-15-2021, 01:25 PM.
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
You are right that circumcision decides who is a Jew. That's why Jews are still Jews, and are not Gentiles.
Christ didn't come to abolish the Law for Israel. Not one one jot, nor one tittle of the law will pass away, till every thing is fulfilled.
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
Why don't you explain? You should if you have received the Holy Spirit. The text says He ascended on high and gave gifts to men.
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Originally posted by Dave L View Post
I experienced the fruit of the Spirit over a three-day period and it caused me to believe in Christ. That was at a time God was the last thing on my mind.
John 12.32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.
These rescues caused people like Rahab and Nicodemus to be drawn to those through whom God performed the rescues:
1 Cor 14.24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
So with your gift please explain the Scripture you provide, of how the cross abolished circumcision. Judaism still requires circumcision, and God is going to graft Judaism back into the family of Abraham.Last edited by footwasher; 03-17-2021, 02:51 AM.
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
The text says He gave gifts to men. It allowed them to explain Scripture that had puzzled people for centuries. This opening of Scripture was like a rescue:
John 12.32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.
These rescues caused people like Rahab and Nicodemus to be drawn to those through whom God performed the rescues:
1 Cor 14.24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
So with your gift please explain the Scripture you provide, of how the cross abolished circumcision. Judaism still requires circumcision, and God is going to graft Judaism back into the family of Abraham.
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Originally posted by Dave L View Post
Your "gift" has not kicked in yet if you think the rite of circumcision still turns gentiles into biblical Jews.
Now don't change the subject. Use your gift, if you have any, to explain why circumcision has been abolished for Jews, when Jesus said not one jot will be removed from the Law.
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Originally posted by footwasher View Post
My gift says Paul taught God's word has not failed, Israel's calling has not been revoked. The hardening is only temporary. The veil will be removed and Israel will grafted back in.
Now don't change the subject. Use your gift, if you have any, to explain why circumcision has been abolished for Jews, when Jesus said not one jot will be removed from the Law.Last edited by Dave L; 03-17-2021, 02:28 PM.
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