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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    Christs saving death will result in everyone He died for, receiving a Divine Call into the enjoyment of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:14-15

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Eph 1:13-14

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth[The Call], the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
    Off topic, but what a good digression!

    We had a member of tweb called The Arminian, who maintained a blog called The Romans Clearinghouse.

    He reminded us that the text says that from the same lump, God made two lumps of clay, one for making a vessel for dishonorable use, and another, for honorable.

    So God took people who were identified as descendants of Abraham, and divided them into two nations, and before either had done good or bad, predestined one group to good use, the other to bad.

    One group was given a contract, and identified as children. The other was not, and called 'dogs'. Children were given bread, dogs were not.

    The children had a vineyard, but always defaulted on rent, and finally the vineyard was taken away and given to 'us', not the children.

    This was because the children were chosen from the same lump, were in the same bad spiritual state as the dogs, the sheep of another flock, and their election was unfair to the other group.

    The dogs were however labelled as disobedient, because they would not become children, although proselytising was attempted. Finally, out of mercy, God made them His People.

    All of Israel was made to stumble, hardened, so that they would lose their unmerited status of children, and also be labelled as disobedient, in turn so that they could also receive mercy, when the hardening was lifted, through maybe a Damascus Road experience, like Paul.


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  • brightfame52
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
    Are you talking to yourself ?

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Another one of the saving results of the death of Christ is in order that, those He died for will receive the adoption of Sons, which requires sending the Spirit into their hearts Gal 4:4-6

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    All for whom Christ died, He redeemed Gal 3:13 and each one of them will in Gods good time , will be given the Spirit into their hearts confirming, validating their adoption of Sons. They will know God as their Father !

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    When Christ died, it was to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, hence inclusive in His Death was all that was necessary to secure the intended saving effects of His death. Nothing was left up to man to do in order for His Saving Death would be fruitful, He is Saviour alone ! Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    When Christ died, it was to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, hence inclusive in His Death was all that was necessary to secure the intended saving effects of His death. Nothing was left up to man to do in order for His Saving Death would be fruitful, He is Saviour alone ! Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    Those Christ died for, He redeemed them, and purchased their release from the dominion of the law and satan and secured upon them the Spirit of Adoption Gal 4:4-6

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Christ was sent into the world to be birthed of a woman, in order to keep the law, even unto death, which death redeemed them He died for [sons]

    The word redeem exagorazō:
    1. to redeem
      1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
      2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
    2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

    See those whom Christ died for are under the dominion and power of satan Acts 26:18

    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
    Inheritance=Gifts that make us like Lights guiding people to God

    For a long time, the Bible was difficult to understand. Then Jesus came and explained everything. Nicodemus was amazed and understood that God was with Jesus, and that was why He could do what He did. And that's what he told Jesus.

    Jesus knew Nicodemus came not just to praise Him, but to find out how He could have God be with Him, be in union with God, have Eternal Life, know Him, like Joseph knew Mary. And Jesus told him that he could only do it if he was born again, and inside the Kingdom.

    Jesus told His followers that He was going to prepare places in the Kingdom for them. Different places had different gifts, that He had obtained for them.

    So when you enter the Kingdom, you are given gifts. These gifts allowed a believer to do great works, explain very difficult Scripture. When this happened, many people were drawn to God.

    So the way believers were blessings to the world, like God promised Abraham that he and his family would be, was that they would be able to pick up crosses, take up difficult tasks, that God prepared in advance, and solve them. When they did this, because God lifted them up, people were amazed and in turn wanted to follow the God who was able to make His followers blessings to the world.

    The Bible called these gifted people informed, instructed and called ungifted people, uninstructed, idiotai.


    If your explanation about a Bible idea is wonderful, amazing, then you are gifted. If not, you are uninformed.


    Which are you?


    Ep 2
    10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.


    Is 45
    7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


    Jn 9
    1As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4We must carry out the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”


    Jn 12
    32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.


    Jn 3
    1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to [a]Jesus at night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these [b]signs that You do unless God is with him.”

    Joshua 2
    8Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9and said to the men, “I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you. 10“For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11“When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.


    1 Cor 14
    24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

    Ep 4
    7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it a says:

    “When he ascended on high,

    he took many captives

    and gave gifts to his people.”
    Last edited by footwasher; 10-17-2021, 01:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Those Christ died for, He redeemed them, and purchased their release from the dominion of the law and satan and secured upon them the Spirit of Adoption Gal 4:4-6

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Christ was sent into the world to be birthed of a woman, in order to keep the law, even unto death, which death redeemed them He died for [sons]

    The word redeem exagorazō:
    1. to redeem
      1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
      2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
    2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

    See those whom Christ died for are under the dominion and power of satan Acts 26:18

    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    Col 1:13

    Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    The power of darkness here is the same as the power of satan !

    Now Christs redemptive work redeems, rescues, frees those He died for from satans dominion which includes unbelief, since satan is instrumental in men being in unbelief by blinding their minds 2 Cor 4:4

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    and being rescued, delivered they receive the Adoption of Sons, which is the Spirit.

    Christ dying for them evidenced them being sons, and causing them to receive the Sprit into their hearts.


    Fulfilling the promise Ezk 36:27

    27 And I will put my spirit[of adoption] within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Christ’s death obtained redemption Heb 9:12, if it purges the conscience Heb 9:14, and secures the eternal inheritance Heb 9:15, then there is a exact conjoining between Christ’s sufferings and his saving results; but the aforementioned is true, and therefore so is the last-mentioned.

    Heb 9:12,14,15

    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    Three things result from the death of Christ, for all whom He died, which if they dont occur in our life, its obvious Christ didnt die for us.

    #1 We are reconciled to God Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    #2 We were spiritually healed Isa 53:5

    5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. CP 1 Pet 2:24

    #3 We have peace with God
    Isa 53:5

    5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    Col 1:20

    And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    The Scriptures declare of the objective and outcome of Christ’s death, in the most outright and positive terms: "When enemies, we were reconciled to God, by the death of his Son, and shall much more be saved by his life," Romans 5:10. "He died for us, that we should live together with him," 1 Thess. 5: 10. "God hath appointed us to obtain salvation by Jesus Christ,"154

    His death effects that we shall be saved by His Life [conversion] and that we shall live together with Him and obtain Salvation.

    If we dont believe this, we certainly sell the effects of His death short, to our shame !

    Leave a comment:


  • brightfame52
    replied
    What religionist are blind to as it pertains to the Death of Christ and its saving effects, is that Christ death procured life, both Spiritual and Eternal for them He died for. This Life is given, applied to them He died for by the Spirit, so by His death He gives life to the world Jn 6:33119

    For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

    Life here is Spiritual and is imparted by the Spirit in Honor of His Saving Death !

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    If Christ died for our sins according to the scripture, the following things are true:

    That we were sinners dead in sin without hope, and could do nothing to save ourselves. Matt 1:21; Eph 2:12


    t means that God has chosen us in Christ Jesus before the foundation Eph 1:4 and wherein Grace was given to us in Him for the purpose of saving 2 Tim 1:9

    It means that God has forgiven us all our sins and will not never charge them to us, lay them to our account ! Rom 4; 8;

    If Christ died for us we have the Righteousness of God through Christ charged to us 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 4106

    If Christ died for us, His redemptive death secured our salvation from the curse of the law. Gal 3:13

    If Christ died for us, we shall be given Spiritual life by the Spirit Gal 4:4-6

    If Christ died for us, God will send to us the Gospel of our salvation. Eph 1:13; 2 Thess 2:13-14

    If Christ died for us, God will preserve us unto eternal glory ! 2 Tim 4:18

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  • brightfame52
    replied
    The harvest of Christ's Death. Peace, the outcome of the cross. We believe that the Savior's finished work has rendered our[Gods Elect] damnation impossible, and our salvation certain,99

    Leave a comment:


  • footwasher
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    ? 1 Cor 9:21; Gal 6:2 explicitly state that there is a law of Christ. But your post doesn't address the issue that I raised:

    Are you claiming that Christ actually sets us free from sin, rather than just the penalty for sin - and in this lifetime even?
    The law of Christ is to be loyal to him, unlike what Jews are under, Torah, and what Gentiles are under, conscience.

    The Atonement frees us from sin, in the sense that where there is no law, there is no sin.

    Sin is the obstruction to union with God. It no longer exists because of the death of the law giver.

    Of course, the penalty of sin is death, and that has been taken away, too. Scholars say that since Adam didn't immediately die, but was separated from God, death is separation from God. Which is correct: the ruining of God's plan meant our lives are futile. The results of our existence rust and perish, don't remain.

    Leave a comment:

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