Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by footwasher View Post

    Do you admit you're wrong in saying Romans 1 teaches all deserve to be condemned because they are evil. The only ones who are condemned are the ones who reject Him. And it's not because they have not been transformed by God. It's because, on their own volition, they refused to come out of the darkness, because they wanted to take the broad path. Those who hated the darkness came to the light.
    Everyone hates and rejects God unless God gives them a new heart. People think they love God, but apart from the new birth, they worship only idols they call Jesus.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Dave L View Post

      Everyone hates and rejects God unless God gives them a new heart. People think they love God, but apart from the new birth, they worship only idols they call Jesus.
      Give Scriptural support for this claim.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by footwasher View Post

        Give Scriptural support for this claim.
        God is love. Unless people are born again they have only their wicked selves that hate God. They love idols they call Christ instead. Do you think the Israelites loved God in the Exodus? Why did only two of the originals enter the promised land? It wasn't because they loved God.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Dave L View Post

          God is love. Unless people are born again they have only their wicked selves that hate God. They love idols they call Christ instead. Do you think the Israelites loved God in the Exodus? Why did only two of the originals enter the promised land? It wasn't because they loved God.
          You can't or won't give Scriptural support for your views?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by footwasher View Post

            You can't or won't give Scriptural support for your views?
            Why does God save people if they are able to save themselves? Do you have any scripture to support your view? Any examples?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              Why does God save people if they are able to save themselves? Do you have any scripture to support your view? Any examples?
              I do have Scriptural support, lots of them. But this has to be fair, I asked first. If you admit you have no support, I will still provide support for view.

              Ball is in your court.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                I do have Scriptural support, lots of them. But this has to be fair, I asked first. If you admit you have no support, I will still provide support for view.

                Ball is in your court.
                When I showed Paul's works of the flesh in Galatians, you could not find a trace of anything that would lend itself towards salvation. Start with answering that. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (KJV 1900)

                Now, where is salvation found? “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22–25 (KJV 1900)

                If Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, where does the flesh fit in?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  When I showed Paul's works of the flesh in Galatians, you could not find a trace of anything that would lend itself towards salvation. Start with answering that. “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19–21 (KJV 1900)

                  Now, where is salvation found? “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22–25 (KJV 1900)

                  If Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, where does the flesh fit in?
                  I asked you to give Scriptural support for your views, which teach that men are totally depraved. You gave Gal 5:19-21.


                  But that does not say that men are incapable of God's command to hear and believe, the issue we are focused on. It only says the result of obeying our carnal nature, flesh, is sin. If we obey our nobler side, our spiritual side, we will bear fruit (Gal 5:22-25).

                  Believers crucify their flesh. Believers walk in their spirit. Choice is made.

                  Jesus is the author, the first cause, by feeding us bread from heaven, and finisher, by spreading a feast at the wedding banquet, the Cross. But we must buy oil for our lamps without money, wear wedding garments, or we will be like ground that drinks rain, not producing wheat and grain, but only produces thistles and thorns, Hebrews 6:4-8.


                  4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have [e]fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, [f]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often [g]falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and [h]close to being cursed, and [i]it ends up being burned.

                  Jesus gives us inspiration, edification through the Holy Spirit. He does not give us enablement to choose. We give us enablement to choose, by drinking rain and deciding to use that rain to produce grain and not thistle and thorns.
                  Last edited by footwasher; 01-10-2021, 07:51 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                    Christs blood/Death converts them He died for, His Church or Sheep into a kingdom of priests Rev 1:5-6

                    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

                    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 18

                    See as a result of His Blood shed and consequently it washes those He died for from their sins, He makes, produces them into spiritual priests. The word made in Rev 1:6 is the word poieó and means:

                    to make, do
                    Usage: (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause.

                    with the names of the things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion,

                    to create, to produce: of God, as the author of all things, τί or τινα, Matthew 19:4; Mark 10:6; Luke 11:40; Hebrews 1:2; Acts 4:24; Acts 7:50; Acts 17:24; Revelation 14:7

                    The death of Christ results in a new creation !19

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      I asked you to give Scriptural support for your views, which teach that men are totally depraved. You gave Gal 5:19-21.


                      But that does not say that men are incapable of God's command to hear and believe, the issue we are focused on. It only says the result of obeying our carnal nature, flesh, is sin. If we obey our nobler side, our spiritual side, we will bear fruit (Gal 5:22-25).

                      Believers crucify their flesh. Believers walk in their spirit. Choice is made.

                      Jesus is the author, the first cause, by feeding us bread from heaven, and finisher, by spreading a feast at the wedding banquet, the Cross. But we must buy oil for our lamps without money, wear wedding garments, or we will be like ground that drinks rain, not producing wheat and grain, but only produces thistles and thorns, Hebrews 6:4-8.


                      4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have [e]fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, [f]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often [g]falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and [h]close to being cursed, and [i]it ends up being burned.

                      Jesus gives us inspiration, edification through the Holy Spirit. He does not give us enablement to choose. We give us enablement to choose, by drinking rain and deciding to use that rain to produce grain and not thistle and thorns.
                      If you notice, nothing pertaining to Christ exists in the flesh. Only idol worship comes the closest. Faith on the other hand is a fruit of Having the Holy Spirit. Apples grow from trees as fruit. Faith grows from the Holy Spirit as fruit. You are suggesting wicked people save themselves while in the flesh which neither of these scriptures supports. How do you know you are saved?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                        If you notice, nothing pertaining to Christ exists in the flesh. Only idol worship comes the closest. Faith on the other hand is a fruit of Having the Holy Spirit. Apples grow from trees as fruit. Faith grows from the Holy Spirit as fruit. You are suggesting wicked people save themselves while in the flesh which neither of these scriptures supports. How do you know you are saved?
                        I repeat:

                        If we obey our nobler side, our spiritual side, we will bear fruit (Gal 5:22-25).

                        “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22–25 (KJV 1900)

                        They have crucified the flesh, they, not any external force, they are now living according to their spiritual side, so they are encouraged to also walk in it. Notice, they are not advised to wait for an external force to make them walk in it, it is their own motive power which is being appealed to.

                        Please show where I have gone wrong. Don't jump to other issues till you are done here.



                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post


                          See as a result of His Blood shed and consequently it washes those He died for from their sins, He makes, produces them into spiritual priests. The word made in Rev 1:6 is the word poieó and means:

                          to make, do
                          Usage: (a) I make, manufacture, construct, (b) I do, act, cause.

                          with the names of the things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion,

                          to create, to produce: of God, as the author of all things, τί or τινα, Matthew 19:4; Mark 10:6; Luke 11:40; Hebrews 1:2; Acts 4:24; Acts 7:50; Acts 17:24; Revelation 14:7

                          The death of Christ results in a new creation !19
                          Please explain your personal experiential conversion, how you changed from lying to not lying.

                          Don't jump to other issues till you are done here.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                            Please explain your personal experiential conversion, how you changed from lying to not lying.

                            Don't jump to other issues till you are done here.
                            I shared my conversion experience earlier. Unless you know the truth, you can be lying and not know you are. How do you know you are not lying?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              I repeat:

                              If we obey our nobler side, our spiritual side, we will bear fruit (Gal 5:22-25).

                              “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” Galatians 5:22–25 (KJV 1900)

                              They have crucified the flesh, they, not any external force, they are now living according to their spiritual side, so they are encouraged to also walk in it. Notice, they are not advised to wait for an external force to make them walk in it, it is their own motive power which is being appealed to.

                              Please show where I have gone wrong. Don't jump to other issues till you are done here.


                              But you cannot have a nobler side unless you are born again. Where do you find nobility in the flesh?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                                I shared my conversion experience earlier. Unless you know the truth, you can be lying and not know you are. How do you know you are not lying?
                                This is addressed to brightflame52 not you.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by lee_merrill, 06-10-2021, 07:54 PM
                                1 response
                                17 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post mossrose  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 03-23-2021, 02:41 PM
                                15 responses
                                124 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Rushing Jaws  
                                Started by footwasher, 03-14-2021, 12:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                152 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post footwasher  
                                Started by brightfame52, 02-10-2021, 09:46 AM
                                147 responses
                                621 views
                                2 likes
                                Last Post brightfame52  
                                Working...
                                X