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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    footwasher

    Not here to discuss me, but the saving death of Christ. Post 441 care to discuss it ?
    It's like you admire your neighbour's fantastic car or house. What's the point if you can't own it?

    Election and salvation is good, but the fact is you don't have it, because the benefits have not come to you. Remember, Jesus said that those who were faithful to Him have already passed from death into life. You have not passed from death into life. There is no change in you. No gift has been given to you, to bless the world, as promised to Abraham.



    Comment


    • Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely obtained for them eternal redemption Heb 9:12

      12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

      Not made it available, or merely possible, He obtained it for them, and brings them into the realization of it.

      The word redemption here lutrósis:

      lętrōsis (a feminine noun) – properly, the payment of the full ransom-price to free a slave – particularly the redemption of an individual.

      This redemption frees the sinner from neing a slave to sin, to obeying the Truth Rom 6:17


      17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants or slave of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

      God must be thanked for being made free from being a slave of sin unto obedience, because He sent Christ to obtain eternal redemption for them !

      Comment


      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
        Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely obtained for them eternal redemption Heb 9:12

        12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

        Not made it available, or merely possible, He obtained it for them, and brings them into the realization of it.

        The word redemption here lutrósis:

        lętrōsis (a feminine noun) – properly, the payment of the full ransom-price to free a slave – particularly the redemption of an individual.

        This redemption frees the sinner from neing a slave to sin, to obeying the Truth Rom 6:17


        17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants or slave of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

        God must be thanked for being made free from being a slave of sin unto obedience, because He sent Christ to obtain eternal redemption for them !
        Like I said, you're boasting of a redemption, freedom from sin, you don't have. You're not God's people yet, only those who are, have entered Rest, have it:

        Heb 4
        9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

        It's available, made possible, Jesus having obtained it for all mankind, the world, kosmos. However, you have to make efforts to get it.

        John 3
        16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
        Last edited by footwasher; 07-15-2022, 09:13 PM.

        Comment


        • Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely redeemed them unto God, by His Blood observe Rev 5:9

          9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

          To be redeemed to God is Salvation, or why the New Song ?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
            Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely redeemed them unto God, by His Blood observe Rev 5:9

            9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

            To be redeemed to God is Salvation, or why the New Song ?
            Scripture says we are either gathering or scattering, for God or against Him, serving Him or mammon.

            Gathering is what Adam did, making all creation serve God, taming it, naming it, leading it to the Master in a usable state, like a wrangler makes a wild horse useful for the Ranch Owner.

            You can see how Caleb guided Rahab to God, by revealing His light in his life. A type of what being in Rest looked like.

            Also Jesus showed the reality of that type, in being the actual light, here and many other instances:

            John 9
            1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

            3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”


            Resulting in Nicodemus being guided to God:

            John 3
            1Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

            So Jesus said He could be the light, motivate people to seek God, by exhibiting His supernatural presence, by being in the Kingdom.

            Can you show you are in the Kingdom in the same Way, by supernaturally removing evil, opening physical eyes, through touch, or spritual eyes, by shedding light on Darkened Scripture? Problems God created in advance so that we may walk in them, solve them, to bring people to Him, through us?

            Is 45
            7I create evil, form darkness. I the Lord do such things.
            Last edited by footwasher; 07-18-2022, 11:58 PM.

            Comment



            • Christs saving death is saving/salvation because it gives life, and that more abundantly. Jn 10:10-11

              10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

              11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

              Notice in Vs 10 that Jesus says specifically of His Sheep, that the reason why He came into the world was so that they might [ as in purpose] have life, not to offer life to them, but so they may have it, experience it, and that in a abundant manner. Then He gives us in Vs 11 the cause and ground of that giving them life, because He giveth His Life [meaning His substitutionary death] for them the Sheep. His death for them, ensures them having [experientially] life and that more in abundant.

              That word abundantly in Vs 10 is the word perissos and means:
              1. exceeding some number or measure or rank or need
                1. over and above, more than is necessary, superadded
                  1. exceeding abundantly, supremely
                  2. something further, more, much more than all, more plainly
                2. superior, extraordinary, surpassing, uncommon
                  1. pre-eminence, superiority, advantage, more eminent, more remarkable, more excellent

              This is speaking of Spiritual life, so Christs death ensures the spiritual abundant life. This is also what Christ meant whe He spake these words in Jn 6:33

              For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

              The world here is not all without exception, but His Sheep World, all without distinction.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                Christs saving death is saving/salvation because it gives life, and that more abundantly. Jn 10:10-11


                10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[Sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

                11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

                Notice in Vs 10 that Jesus says specifically of His Sheep, that the reason why He came into the world was so that they might [ as in purpose] have life, not to offer life to them, but so they may have it, experience it, and that in a abundant manner. Then He gives us in Vs 11 the cause and ground of that giving them life, because He giveth His Life [meaning His substitutionary death] for them the Sheep. His death for them, ensures them having [experientially] life and that more in abundant.
                Substitution means His life was given for abundant life, instead of the life of the believer. The believer's life could never give life, so how is Christ's life a substitution?

                That word abundantly in Vs 10 is the word perissos and means:
                1. exceeding some number or measure or rank or need
                  1. over and above, more than is necessary, superadded
                    1. exceeding abundantly, supremely
                    2. something further, more, much more than all, more plainly
                  2. superior, extraordinary, surpassing, uncommon
                    1. pre-eminence, superiority, advantage, more eminent, more remarkable, more excellent
                This is speaking of Spiritual life, so Christs death ensures the spiritual abundant life. This is also what Christ meant whe He spake these words in Jn 6:33

                But in John 3, eternal life as noted by Nicodemus was the life of doing things that are only possible if God were with the person, described as 'eternal life':

                John 3
                16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

                For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

                The world here is not all without exception, but His Sheep World, all without distinction.
                The gift is offered to the world, but only received on showing faith. Israel even ate the bread, but only Caleb was allowed into Rest, eternal life.

                You still have not revealed how you received life, and how it is the same life Nicodemus and Rahab observed, of God doing great works through the believer, causing the world to be drawn to God to receive the same life.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                  Substitution means His life was given for abundant life, instead of the life of the believer. The believer's life could never give life, so how is Christ's life a substitution?




                  But in John 3, eternal life as noted by Nicodemus was the life of doing things that are only possible if God were with the person, described as 'eternal life':

                  John 3
                  16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.



                  The gift is offered to the world, but only received on showing faith. Israel even ate the bread, but only Caleb was allowed into Rest, eternal life.

                  You still have not revealed how you received life, and how it is the same life Nicodemus and Rahab observed, of God doing great works through the believer, causing the world to be drawn to God to receive the same life.
                  Partner i dont know what you talking about, but its not teaching the saving results of Christs death.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                    Partner i dont know what you talking about, but its not teaching the saving results of Christs death.
                    The saving results of Christ's death is to receive the Holy Spirit, the ability to pick up crosses and be resurrected. That was what Abraham was taught, when God put him in danger at Pharoah's hand and then rescued him. Abraham realised this was how he would be a blessing to the world. He would pick up a cross, God would rescue him, and he would reveal God's help in his life.

                    Heb 11
                    ​​​19He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.

                    Even Caleb realised this, after seeing how God rescued Israel from dangers He put her in.

                    That's why when they were tested to see if they really had faith, they both obeyed. Abraham offered up Isaac. Caleb went to fight the Amalekites. They were born again, became new persons, unlike the rest of Israel, who were not allowed to enter the Kingdom of God:

                    Numbers 14
                    20“I have pardoned them as you requested,” the LORD replied. 21“Yet as surely as I live and as surely as the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD, 22not one of the men who have seen My glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet have tested Me and disobeyed Me these ten times— 23not one will ever see the land that I swore to give their fathers. None of those who have treated Me with contempt will see it.

                    24But because My servant Caleb has a different spirit and has followed Me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he has entered, and his descendants will inherit it.
                    ...

                    ​​​​​​Even Jesus learned not to avoid the crosses God gave Him, after seeing God rescue Him in the wilderness:

                    Heb 5
                    8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

                    Since you keep beating the drum about the saving results of the death of Christ, please tell me how you received the Holy Spirit, and what happened.
                    ​​​​​
                    Last edited by footwasher; 08-05-2022, 07:12 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      The saving results of Christ's death is to receive the Holy Spirit, the ability to pick up crosses and be resurrected. That was what Abraham was taught, when God put him in danger at Pharoah's hand and then rescued him. Abraham realised this was how he would be a blessing to the world. He would pick up a cross, God would rescue him, and he would reveal God's help in his life.

                      Heb 11
                      ​​​19He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.

                      Even Caleb realised this, after seeing how God rescued Israel from dangers He put her in.

                      That's why when they were tested to see if they really had faith, they both obeyed. Abraham offered up Isaac. Caleb went to fight the Amalekites. They were born again, became new persons, unlike the rest of Israel, who were not allowed to enter the Kingdom of God:

                      Numbers 14
                      20“I have pardoned them as you requested,” the LORD replied. 21“Yet as surely as I live and as surely as the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD, 22not one of the men who have seen My glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness—yet have tested Me and disobeyed Me these ten times— 23not one will ever see the land that I swore to give their fathers. None of those who have treated Me with contempt will see it.

                      24But because My servant Caleb has a different spirit and has followed Me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he has entered, and his descendants will inherit it.
                      ...

                      ​​​​​​Even Jesus learned not to avoid the crosses God gave Him, after seeing God rescue Him in the wilderness:

                      Heb 5
                      8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

                      Since you keep beating the drum about the saving results of the death of Christ, please tell me how you received the Holy Spirit, and what happened.
                      ​​​​​
                      Receiving the Holy Spirit is part of the saving effects of the death of Christ of Christ. All whom Christ died for shall receive the Spirit , its a redemptive consequence Gal 3:13-14



                      13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

                      14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                        Receiving the Holy Spirit is part of the saving effects of the death of Christ of Christ. All whom Christ died for shall receive the Spirit , its a redemptive consequence Gal 3:13-14



                        13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

                        14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
                        So how did you receive the Holy Spirit?

                        What happened? Did you feel you were floating on a cloud? Did you change?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          So how did you receive the Holy Spirit?

                          What happened? Did you feel you were floating on a cloud? Did you change?
                          By the Will Of God, He is received whenever God determines to give one life !

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                            By the Will Of God, He is received whenever God determines to give one life !
                            But Scripture said people tried to receive the Holy Spirit by works of the law and failed, and only succeeded by believing the Gospel:

                            Gal 3
                            2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

                            In other words, it wasn't as if they received the Holy Spirit when they were having breakfast, when they were suddenly zapped with a high voltage current. They received the Holy Spirit after hearing the promise to Abraham had finally arrived amongst men, the Promised Land, the Kingdom of God, where by entering, they could be blessings to the world, by being lights guiding people to God, in turn by being faithful to God, and then received the Holy Spirit, because they believed the announcement, the good news, because they saw proof, saw the finger of God helping Christ, and His followers, making them guiding lights.

                            And you haven't told us yet what happened to you so called experience of having God's will force you to receive the Holy Spirit.
                            Last edited by footwasher; 08-11-2022, 12:38 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                              But Scripture said people tried to receive the Holy Spirit by works of the law and failed, and only succeeded by believing the Gospel:

                              Gal 3
                              2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

                              In other words, it wasn't as if they received the Holy Spirit when they were having breakfast, when they were suddenly zapped with a high voltage current. They received the Holy Spirit after hearing the promise to Abraham had finally arrived amongst men, the Promised Land, the Kingdom of God, where by entering, they could be blessings to the world, by being lights guiding people to God, in turn by being faithful to God, and then received the Holy Spirit, because they believed the announcement, the good news, because they saw proof, saw the finger of God helping Christ, and His followers, making them guiding lights.

                              And you haven't told us yet what happened to you so called experience of having God's will force you to receive the Holy Spirit.
                              Life happens duh. When one receives the Spirit, they receive Spiritual life, and so live spiritually. What happens normally when people receive physical life ? They live physically. Duh

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                                Life happens duh. When one receives the Spirit, they receive Spiritual life, and so live spiritually. What happens normally when people receive physical life ? They live physically. Duh
                                But the text says that when Abraham believed the Gospel, that the Kingdom/Land had come in the midst of men, he was led into the wilderness, experienced cross and resurrection, was put in danger and rescued from Pharoah. He learned that God could always rescue, and realised this was how the promise to be a blessing to the world would be fulfilled. He would pick up a cross every day, God would rescue, and when he was lifted up from the earth, he would draw the world to God. He really expected God to raise Isaac up from the dead:

                                Heb 11
                                19Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
                                ...

                                But the text says that when Israel believed the Gospel, that the Kingdom/Land had come in the midst of men, she was led into the wilderness, experienced cross and resurrection, was put in danger and rescued from Pharoah, and hunger and thirst. She did not learn that God could always rescue, and realise this was how the promise to be a blessing to the world would be fulfilled. She would pick up a cross every day, God would rescue, and when she was lifted up from the earth, she would draw the world to God. But suffering scared her, and she wanted to go back to Egypt. She loved the darkness, wanted to stay on the broad, easy road, living life as safely and comfortably as she could, like us. Did not want to come into the light, living a life that resulted in treasure which did not rust and perish. Have Eternal life. Only Caleb was born again, had had a different spirit, a different mindset, meta noia-ed, change of mind, changed from a fearful follower to a courageous leader.

                                Num 14
                                24“But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.
                                ​​​​​...

                                But the text says that when Jesus believed the Gospel, that the Kingdom/Land had come in the midst of men, He was led into the wilderness, experienced cross and resurrection, was put in danger and rescued from hunger and thirst and the Devil. He learned that God could always rescue, and realised this was how the promise to be a blessing to the world would be fulfilled. He would pick up a cross every day, God would rescue, and when He was lifted up from the earth, he would draw the world to God. He learned obedience from suffering.

                                John 12
                                32And when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.
                                ...

                                But the text says that when the disciples in Acts 19 believed the Gospel, that the Kingdom/Land had come in the midst of men, they were edified by tongues, experienced cross and resurrection, were put in danger and rescued virtually. They learned that God could always rescue, and realised this was how the promise to be a blessing to the world would be fulfilled. They would pick up a cross every day, God would rescue, and when they were lifted up from the earth, they would draw the world to God. God would prepare crosses in advance for them to pick up, evil situations, darkened Scripture. When they healed the situation, explained the difficult Scripture, they would show what the Kingdom was like and draw people like Rahab, Naaman and Nicodemus to God.

                                Ep 2
                                10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

                                Is 45
                                7Evil situations, darkened Scripture, I the Lord create all these.

                                Heb 5
                                8Though He was the Son, He still learned obedience from suffering.

                                John 9
                                1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

                                3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must doa the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

                                1 Cor 14
                                4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

                                See how the world is drawn to God:

                                Joshua 2
                                8Before the spies lay down for the night, Rahab went up on the roof 9and said to them, “I know that the LORD has given you this land and that the fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who dwell in the land are melting in fear of you. 10For we have heard how the LORD dried up the waters of the Red Seab before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites across the Jordan, whom you devoted to destruction.c 11When we heard this, our hearts melted and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in the heavens above and on the earth below.

                                John 3
                                1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.

                                1 Cor 14
                                24But if an unbeliever or ungifted person comes in while everyone is prophesying, he will be convicted and called to account by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be made known. So he will fall facedown and worship God, proclaiming, “God is truly among you!”
                                ...

                                Doh! You are a teacher of Israel, and you don't know this? You need to believe the correct Gospel, really receive the Holy Spirit, experience cross and resurrection, learn obedience from suffering, be born again, be allowed to enter the Kingdom, so that you can be a blessing to the world, because in the Kingdom, where God is with you, you can pick up crosses, heal people, explain Scripture by the finger of God, and draw the world to God by revealing His light to all mankind, when you use the gift He gives you:

                                As Scripture says, he ascended to heaven and gave gifts to His People.
                                Last edited by footwasher; 08-13-2022, 04:54 PM.

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