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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • John 12:32-33

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

    Christs own testimony to His own Saving death, hence there isnt one soul for whom Christ died that shall not come to Him or come to believe on Him and follow Him !

    Comment


    • Those Christ died for, they could never die in their sins, because when He died for them, He put away their sins Heb 9:26

      26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

      This truth is vital to Preaching the Cross, what resulted from Christs Cross work, the sacrificing of Himself for sinners.

      Comment



      • By Jesus Christ death upon the cross as our[His Church] Substitute, the Son of God paid our[His Church] debt, made atonement for our[His Church]sins, and redeemed us[His Church] from the curse of the law by making satisfaction to Divine justice for us[His Church].

        Comment


        • Its just as Christ dishonoring to His Saving Death to say that His death saved no one apart from their believing, as to say His death saved no one apart from their good works of charity, or keeping the law, or water baptism.

          Comment


          • Christ death is a saving death because those for whom He died, or suffered, it brings them to God. That means it effects conversion to God 1 Pet 3:18

            18 For Christ also hath once suffered[or died] for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

            Those He died for, likewise will be quickened by the Spirit. Thats what begins their conversion or being brought to God.

            Comment


            • Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely put away their sin before God Heb 9:26

              26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

              The words put away means:
              1. abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection

              He cancelled their sins, made them non and void.

              Like Daniel stated He made and end of them Dan 9:24

              Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

              And so consequently, them for whom this has been done for, no charge of sin can be laid charged against them, not even unbelief/disobedience.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely put away their sin before God Heb 9:26

                26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

                The words put away means:
                1. abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection

                He cancelled their sins, made them non and void.
                You mean Christ's death only achieved forgiveness for the Elect.

                So, are you one of the Elect? How can you prove it? Great scholars couldn't prove they were one of the Elect. There must me something wrong with this view. Let's find nd out.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by footwasher View Post
                  You mean Christ's death only achieved forgiveness for the Elect.
                  Yes and no. Christ died to give the opportunity to anyone from whatever circumstance to be included as elect. The saving result accrues to those who take advantage of the opportunity.
                  1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                  Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                  "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Yes and no. Christ died to give the opportunity to anyone from whatever circumstance to be included as elect. The saving result accrues to those who take advantage of the opportunity.
                    That's kind of an oxymoron, since the Elect are the recipients of God's grace, do not merit justification, were chosen arbitrarily. When you say anyone can have the opportunity with no barrier of circumstance, you're saying they earned the opportunity by their own volition. They elected themselves.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                      That's kind of an oxymoron, since the Elect are the recipients of God's grace, do not merit justification, were chosen arbitrarily. When you say anyone can have the opportunity with no barrier of circumstance, you're saying they earned the opportunity by their own volition. They elected themselves.
                      God is no respecter of person, but accepts anyone who does what is right.
                      Anyone who accepts Christ is given authority to become a son of God.
                      People who believe the gospel even though they are dead in their sins, and turn to do what is right are indeed self selecting.
                      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                        God is no respecter of person, but accepts anyone who does what is right.
                        Anyone who accepts Christ is given authority to become a son of God.
                        People who believe the gospel even though they are dead in their sins, and turn to do what is right are indeed self selecting.
                        However, the OP keeps banging on about how the Elect do not do anything to deserve being elected. The whole point of the doctrine of election is that it is God who decides who is elect and who isn't, and by that election, who is saved and who isn't, without any regard to what they want.
                        Last edited by footwasher; 07-08-2022, 02:21 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          However, the OP keeps banging on about how the Elect do not do anything to deserve being elected. The whole point of the doctrine of election is that it is God who decides who is elect and who isn't, and by that election, who is saved and who isn't.
                          And God, being no respecter of persons, looks at what the person does rather than his income, social status, or race. It is true that the elect are no more deserving of salvation than anyone else, for there is no-one has lived righteously throughout his life, but God does look upon repentance favourably. He looks on a lack of repentance with disfavour. Repentance is less a matter of hand-wringing and screaming mea culpa than it is a heartfelt decision to stop sinning, and that decision is the first in a series of steps in doing what is right.
                          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                          Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                          "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            And God, being no respecter of persons, looks at what the person does rather than his income, social status, or race. It is true that the elect are no more deserving of salvation than anyone else, for there is no-one has lived righteously throughout his life, but God does look upon repentance favourably. He looks on a lack of repentance with disfavour. Repentance is less a matter of hand-wringing and screaming mea culpa than it is a heartfelt decision to stop sinning, and that decision is the first in a series of steps in doing what is right.
                            Well, for the OP, God being no respecter of persons, does not even look at what the person does. That's how the doctrine of unconditional election is explained in Calvinism.

                            That's why, instead of going round and round in arguing why God chose Jacob instead of Esau in the womb, even before either child had done anything, good or bad, I chose to discuss the OP's personal election, which Calvinism gives no assurance of. Which a better study of Scripture can actually so give.

                            Let's see what the OP has to say.

                            Comment


                            • Christ did so much more than dying for sin and making Salvation possible or available to all mankind, thats such a false teaching, However what He did do for them He died for, Gods Elect, He absolutely redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13

                              13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

                              Thats Salvation, for sin finds its curses because of the Law 1 Cor 15:56

                              The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

                              The law nor sin can condemn any sinner Christ died for.

                              Comment


                              • footwasher

                                You mean Christ's death only achieved forgiveness for the Elect.
                                Correct

                                So, are you one of the Elect?
                                Not here to discuss me, but the saving death of Christ. Post 441 care to discuss it ?

                                Comment

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