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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ Those Christ died for are dead to the law Rom 7:410
    Wrong. Paul wrote that he was not free from God's law, but was still under it:

    1 Cor 9
    21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

    Comment



    • Christ’s Death Actually Saves

      If the Lord Jesus died for absolutely everybody, then why are not all actually saved? Romans 6 makes it clear that those who are united to Christ in His death are dead to sin (6-7) and “alive unto God” (11), and will be raised bodily to glory (5). But many spend all their days “dead in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1) and will rise in the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29). We can only conclude that they were not united to Christ in His death (i.e., He did not die for them), for if the reprobate were united to the Son of God in His death (i.e., if He died for them), they would die to sin and live unto God (Rom. 14:9; II Cor. 5:14-15).

      Scripture teaches that both faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 1:29) and repentance (Acts 5:31; 11:18; II Tim. 2:25) are gifts of God’s grace. Faith and repentance are instances of “spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3). God’s blessings in Christ come through the cross (Rom. 8:32; Gal. 3:13-14). But “all men have not faith” (II Thess. 3:2) nor do all repent (Rev. 16:11). Thus faith and repentance were not purchased for everybody head for head on the cross and so the Saviour did not die for all. https://cprc.co.uk/pamphlets2/forwhomdidchristdie/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

        Wrong. Paul wrote that he was not free from God's law, but was still under it:

        1 Cor 9
        21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
        Rom 6:14

        For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

          Rom 6:14

          For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
          People think that being under God's Law, Grace, means they don't have to do anything. Works is contrasted with faith. Actually faith means loyalty, which means doing deeds, acting to show we are on God's side.


          Under Sinaitic Covenant (AKA Covenant of Law, Works, flesh)

          Believers must observe Torah, follow all the laws listed:

          Galatians 5
          3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

          James 2
          10For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all.


          Under New Covenant (AKA Covenant of Grace, Faith, spirit)

          Believers must declare loyalty to Christ, followed by showing loyalty to Christ.

          Gal 3
          3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

          James 2
          20But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? 21Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and [o]as a result of the works, faith was [p]perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called a friend of God.
          Last edited by footwasher; 02-18-2022, 05:04 PM.

          Comment


          • THE WORK OF CHRIST

            Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. Isaiah 62:11
            When I was a young man, the religious tradition in which I was raised spoke of “salvation” as a state which a man could attain by acting in his own free will to accept what CHRIST had done by HIS death on Calvary’s cross. It taught that if a man could be persuaded to “believe” and “receive CHRIST” then he could attain a standing or position known as “salvation”. Folks were urged to “get saved” as soon as possible so that in case they died they would be assured of a place in heaven where they could join all of the other neighbors and loved ones who had made similar “decisions” and gained heaven by their action of faith, avoiding the pit of hell in the process.

            Though the work of CHRIST in dying on the cross was often spoken of, the true importance of what HE did was actually of secondary consequence since it was concluded that regardless of what HE had done on the cross, it made little difference if men did not “accept” it thereby making it effective in redeeming them. The basic concept which was taught was that CHRIST died for every individual on the face of the earth and had made the salvation of each one a possibility if they could just be persuaded to receive it and thereby gain its benefit; otherwise CHRIST had simply died in vain for all who did not believe.

            While CHRIST’s work on the cross was said to be a payment for sin, yet the teaching was that no one was actually “saved” by it, only made “salvable”. The only sin that was left “unpaid for” was that of unbelief. So that by adding the work of faith to that which CHRIST did on Calvary this made a man saved. They said the only thing that could cause a man to go to hell was “unbelief.”

            Therefore much time was spent and various methodologies adopted in order to influence men to exercise their “free will” and effect their own salvation by accepting HIM and making a profession of faith. They could even write the day and hour (in which they made this transaction) on a little card so if they ever began to doubt their “salvation” they could refer to the card and be assured. This scenario is played out in most churches and religious orders today with certain variations. Some require baptism in water as an act of obedience which washes away their sin, some expect that those who make such decisions to speak in a language unknown to men, some advocate that certain styles of dress be adopted, etc.

            The list goes on but, in every case, the most important part of a man’s “salvation” is ultimately considered to be what “he does” since it is assumed that CHRIST has already done all that HE could do and has left this salvation up to men to either accept it or reject it. If that truly was the scenario that the LORD had displayed then no man would ever be saved, since the scripture clearly declares the deadness of men in their sinful state and says, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Rom 3:11)

            How different is the scriptural message concerning the “work of CHRIST”? HE came into the world in order to perform a specific work for which HE was ordained. As the angel told Joseph, “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” (Mat 1:21) “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pet 1:18-20)

            CHRIST is the REDEEMER, HE has bought and paid for the salvation of every one of those whom HE loved from before the foundation of the world. HE has not left one stone unturned nor in any wise failed to do everything that was needed in order to secure the redemption, justification, and sanctification of every one of them. Their salvation depends, one hundred percent, on what HE has done for them. “But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.” (Psa 37:39)

            When you ask a true believer to describe his “salvation”, he only needs one word: CHRIST. “But Christ is all, and in all.” (Col 3:11) If he needs more then it is too much. “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:” (1Cor 1:30) There is nothing lacking in that which CHRIST has performed. Not only has HE purchased the redemption of HIS people by paying their sin debt, but HE has imputed HIS perfect righteousness in keeping the law to their account. Not only that but HE has triumphed over death and become the “first fruits” of the resurrection, thereby assuring them that if they die they shall indeed live again.

            In addition, HE has sent HIS SPIRIT into the world to lay claim to every one of HIS elect, and does draw them to HIMSELF in the appointed hour and does lead them from darkness into LIGHT. HE has also promised to return to this earth to receive that which is HIS at the last trump. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:37-39)

            The salvation of the sons of GOD is totally the “work of CHRIST” from beginning to end. “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Heb 12:2) “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” (Heb 9:12) It is a false “gospel” that declares anything less. This is why Paul said, “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save (i.e.; except) Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” (1Cor 2:2)

            To declare that CHRIST performed a work of salvation for a man which is not sufficient to save him, apart from some action on the man’s part, is to preach no “salvation” (only its possibility) at all, and is to count the precious blood of CHRIST as shed in vain for many. It is to disregard the efficacy of the blood of the SON of GOD and to deny the prophecy of Isaiah, “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” (Isa 53:11)

            The atonement of CHRIST, which is the basis of the Christian faith can only be viewed in three possible scenarios. Either, 1. HE paid the price for the sins of all men, therefore all men are “saved”., or 2. HE paid the price for the sins of all men but actually saved none, leaving the final act of “salvation” in their hands. or finally and truthfully, 3. HE actually accomplished the work which HE came into the world to perform which was to redeem an elect people which were chosen in HIM before the foundation of the world and does save them to the uttermost. The latter is indeed the “work of CHRIST” upon which all who have been given “faith” must alone rely. “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (Joh 10:27-28)

            Grace Gazette Volume 11 Issue 19

            Comment


            • Christ’s Death Actually Saves:

              Because those He died for resulted in their eternal redemption, it obtained t for them Heb 9:12

              12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

              Thats Salvation, the word redemption here means

              a ransoming, a redemption
              Usage: (in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release. specifically, redemption from the penalty of sin

              Redemption from the penalty of sin, which penalty is eternal death as Per Rom 6:23
              23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

              So redemption from the penalty of sin is the Gift of God by and through Christ by His death having obtained eternal redemption for us, which is eternal life from eternal death, which is Salvation ! In fct eternal redemption equates to that eternal inheritance the redeemed is called to Heb 9:15

              15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

              Eternal inheritance is equvilaent to that eternal life in Rom 6:23 10

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                Christ’s Death Actually Saves:

                Because those He died for resulted in their eternal redemption, it obtained t for them Heb 9:12

                12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

                Thats Salvation, the word redemption here means

                a ransoming, a redemption
                Usage: (in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release. specifically, redemption from the penalty of sin

                Redemption from the penalty of sin, which penalty is eternal death as Per Rom 6:23
                23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

                So redemption from the penalty of sin is the Gift of God by and through Christ by His death having obtained eternal redemption for us, which is eternal life from eternal death, which is Salvation ! In fct eternal redemption equates to that eternal inheritance the redeemed is called to Heb 9:15

                15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

                Eternal inheritance is equvilaent to that eternal life in Rom 6:23 10
                Hebrews 9:15 ... From there, it is necessary to establish who is called, and what part "might" plays in that statement. Also Romans 6:23 does not rescind Romans 8:13.
                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

                "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                  Hebrews 9:15 ... From there, it is necessary to establish who is called, and what part "might" plays in that statement. Also Romans 6:23 does not rescind Romans 8:13.
                  Absolutely. Jews, Israel was called but only Caleb was chosen. Now the messengers go into the byways and call all, both Jew and Gentile, but, again, only a few are chosen, rebutting the Calvin-istic claim that all the called are saved.

                  Matt 22
                  14For many are [g]called, but few are chosen.

                  Even those called must persist, or they will also be cut off, as shown in Rom 8.15, and parallels. Those given the Spirit, the elected, must live according to the Spirit, or they will lose their salvation, this showing the Calvin-istic doctrine of preservation is also wrong:

                  Galatians 6
                  8For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

                  If the OP cares to engage we will demolish the argument in a supernatural way:

                  ​​​​​​2 Cor 10
                  5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

                  1 Cor 3
                  15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.
                  Last edited by footwasher; 02-20-2022, 08:21 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Hebrews 9:15 ... From there, it is necessary to establish who is called, and what part "might" plays in that statement. Also Romans 6:23 does not rescind Romans 8:13.
                    You dont get it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                      You dont get it.
                      Just because you say we don't get it, don't understand or are wrong doesn't mean you are right. You have to show how we are wrong.


                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                        Just because you say we don't get it, don't understand or are wrong doesn't mean you are right. You have to show how we are wrong.

                        I already have shown you that by all these posts I have made and you are adverse to or have ignored. Thats on you

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                          Wrong. Paul wrote that he was not free from God's law, but was still under it:
                          Re this one ...
                          We are subject to the law of Christ, or the law of God depending on passage.
                          The law referred to by Paul, when it has no descriptive comment, is usually the fulfilled "law of Moses and the prophets." Paul most commonly refers to it simply as "the law," with the full phrase being used only in the opening sentence(s), if at all.
                          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                          Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

                          "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                            I already have shown you that by all these posts I have made and you are adverse to or have ignored. Thats on you
                            Actually you simply ignored the questions.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              Re this one ...
                              We are subject to the law of Christ, or the law of God depending on passage.
                              The law referred to by Paul, when it has no descriptive comment, is usually the fulfilled "law of Moses and the prophets." Paul most commonly refers to it simply as "the law," with the full phrase being used only in the opening sentence(s), if at all.
                              We think that there are no rules, laws in the Covenant of Grace. Actually, they are there, but they are of a different nature.

                              Imagine being invited into the house of the person who is your superior, benefactor. As you arrive, another person who has been given the job of a butler also arrives. You have two suitcases in your hand. Your host asks you to let the butler carry your luggage. You decide to hand over one suitcase.

                              1. When you go to your room, you are caring for your luggage, which has come under the responsibilty of the host, the butler is doing work.

                              2. When you take out your clothes and hang them in the closet, you are enjoying the furniture and the facilities in the room, shown by thanking the host for the great room. He is doing work.

                              3. It begins to rain. The carpet begins to get wet. You both rush to close the windows. You are concerned about the possible damage to the carpet. He is doing work.

                              4. A wild animal enters the house. You worry about the safety of the host and his children, and look around for a weapon. The hired hand worries if the job is worth the risk to himself and the loss to his family, and considers running away.

                              All this to show that the status of a believer changes from servant to friend after justification. Abraham was called a friend of God. Jesus told his disciples they were no longer considered servants, but friends.

                              The action of a hired hand is obligation to salary received. Those of a friend are loyal responses to a loved and respected benefactor/Patron. Those are the rules that apply in the respective situations.

                              James 2
                              8If, however, you are fulfilling the [h]royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all.

                              Romans 3.21-22 says that our previous relationship with God was an employment contract, but now is a friendship covenant.

                              Rom 3
                              21But now apart [p]from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the [q]Law and the Prophets, 22but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [r]who believe; for there is no distinction,
                              Last edited by footwasher; 02-22-2022, 12:30 PM.

                              Comment


                              • I'm sure that the Tabibito/Traveller knows that in East Asia, service to society, concern for it, is considered a good attitude.


                                They say, children obey rules out of fear. Adults out of choice. Wise men, out of understanding.


                                Immature people fret at the red light. They fear punishment, paying fines they can't afford, or they would jump the light. Adults choose to obey the rule, even though paying a fine is not a big deal. Wise men understand the necessity for stopping at lights: the system allows for safe operation of traffic. Lives are protected.


                                Imagine the leader of the country rushing to the airport to attend a meeting where a superpower has surfaced as a threat in the Pacific Region. The traffic policemen turns all the lights to red. He waves the leader's convoy through. Again lives are being protected.


                                The policeman is part of the Patron's system. He understands how the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of the law is important.


                                When we become part of God's family, friends, adopted sons, co-inheritors, the situation changes from working out of fear (Covenant of Law) to acting out of sharing common interest with our Lord (Covenant of Grace).


                                Jn 10
                                12He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters the flock.

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