Announcement

Collapse

Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
    When Christ died, it was to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21, hence inclusive in His Death was all that was necessary to secure the intended saving effects of His death. Nothing was left up to man to do in order for His Saving Death would be fruitful, He is Saviour alone ! Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    "It is not divine truth that makes the man seem more innocent in what is equally sinful, but human wrong-headedness." AUGUSTINE: re adultery

    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

    Comment


    • Another one of the saving results of the death of Christ is in order that, those He died for will receive the adoption of Sons, which requires sending the Spirit into their hearts Gal 4:4-6

      4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

      5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


      6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

      All for whom Christ died, He redeemed Gal 3:13 and each one of them will in Gods good time , will be given the Spirit into their hearts confirming, validating their adoption of Sons. They will know God as their Father !

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
        Are you talking to yourself ?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
          Off topic, but what a good digression!

          We had a member of tweb called The Arminian, who maintained a blog called The Romans Clearinghouse.

          He reminded us that the text says that from the same lump, God made two lumps of clay, one for making a vessel for dishonorable use, and another, for honorable.

          So God took people who were identified as descendants of Abraham, and divided them into two nations, and before either had done good or bad, predestined one group to good use, the other to bad.

          One group was given a contract, and identified as children. The other was not, and called 'dogs'. Children were given bread, dogs were not.

          The children had a vineyard, but always defaulted on rent, and finally the vineyard was taken away and given to 'us', not the children.

          This was because the children were chosen from the same lump, were in the same bad spiritual state as the dogs, the sheep of another flock, and their election was unfair to the other group.

          The dogs were however labelled as disobedient, because they would not become children, although proselytising was attempted. Finally, out of mercy, God made them His People.

          All of Israel was made to stumble, hardened, so that they would lose their unmerited status of children, and also be labelled as disobedient, in turn so that they could also receive mercy, when the hardening was lifted, through maybe a Damascus Road experience, like Paul.


          Comment


          • Christs saving death will result in everyone He died for, receiving a Divine Call into the enjoyment of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:14-15

            14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

            15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

            Eph 1:13-14

            13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth[The Call], the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

            14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

            Comment


            • Scriptures points to the saving death of Christ for them He died for. Now all for whom He died had a legal union with Him and were in Him, so that when He died, they died with Him just as they had a legal union with Adam so that when he died, they died with him. So for those in Christ when He died for them, and rose again, so too also they having died in Him, must also be raised up in newness of life Rom 6:4-6

              4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

              5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

              6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

              See those Christ died for shall walk in the newness of life, will be delivered from being a servant of sin, which is unbelief. In other words they for whom Christ died will be born again, partake of the renewing of the Holy Ghost Titus 3:5

              5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

              The renewing of the Holy Ghost equates to walk in the newness of life in Rom 6:4 above.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                Christs saving death will result in everyone He died for, receiving a Divine Call into the enjoyment of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:14-15

                14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

                15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

                Eph 1:13-14

                13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth[The Call], the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

                14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
                How can Christ's action affect us? In fact, how can Adam's action affect us?

                Comment


                • For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

                  Deliverance
                  from the hand of our enemies, Luke 1:71-74

                  71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

                  72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

                  73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

                  74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

                  This has to do with Spiritual enemies, what the carnal jews didn't understand. Jesus is a Horn of Salvation Vs 69

                  69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

                  By His Death He becomes the Captain of our Salvation ! This also fulfills the promise of Matt 1:21

                  21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

                    How can Christ's action affect us? In fact, how can Adam's action affect us?
                    Post 395 do you understand what Im saying ?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                      Post 395 do you understand what Im saying ?
                      Adam was High Priest through being able to walk with God, in turn through being sinless. Because he did not know good from evil, he could not be accused of sin. Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

                      Rom 4
                      15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

                      Jesus was also anointed as High Priest, in the order of Melchizedek, without any genealogy.

                      The High Priest represented humanity. What he did represented what humanity did. When Caiaphas rejected Jesus as Messiah, it was as if Israel disobeyed.

                      However, the text says that when a High Priest dies, all the people who ran away to escape crime could come back to Jerusalem:

                      Joshua 20
                      6And he shall remain in that city until he stands before the congregation for judgment, until the death of the one who is high priest in those days. Then [f]he shall [g]return to his own city and to his own house, to the city from which he fled.’”

                      So when God asked Jesus to go to the Cross, He basically removed the Law from affecting believers, because the one who was administering the law had died.

                      If a President passes an ordinance making it a punishable crime to go out in public without a face mask, and then that President is not re-elected, that law disappears.

                      This is how the Cross makes it possible for believers to walk with God in the Kingdom, because God made them sinless by removing law in the Kingdom.

                      Zec 3
                      8Now listen, Joshua, you high priest, you and your friends who are sitting in front of you—indeed they are men who are a sign: for behold, I am going to bring in My servant the [d]Branch. 9For behold, the stone that I have put before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I am going to engrave an inscription on it,’ declares the LORD of armies, ‘and I will remove the guilt of that land in one day.

                      That's why you should enter the Kingdom. Strong men imitating Caleb have already forced their way in. Be like Caleb, change, have a different spirit, be born again.

                      Num 14
                      24But as for My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring him into the land which he [l]entered, and his [m]descendants shall take possession of it.

                      John 3
                      3Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born [c]again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

                      Do you agree?
                      Last edited by footwasher; 12-05-2021, 03:36 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

                        Post 395 do you understand what Im saying ?
                        Nicodemus asked Jesus how to stand in the presence of God, do great works that brought God's sheep back to Him, to earn treasure that was eternal, did not rust and perish.

                        Jesus gave him with the solution: Nicodemus had to be in the Kingdom, which had come near, amongst men, so that he could have God be with him, by being pure, because only the pure can see Him, stand in the presence of God, ascend His holy mountain, and do the things by the finger of God.

                        To enter the Kingdom, we have to be like Caleb, not like Israel, who, even though they received the Holy Spirit, drank from the Rock, could not enter Rest, because they never learned from the things revealed to them.

                        Heb 6
                        7For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

                        Psalm 106
                        21They forgot the God who saved them,

                        who had done great things in Egypt,

                        22miracles in the land of Ham

                        and awesome deeds by the Red Sea.



                        Abraham was rescued from King Abhimelech and Pharaoh. He learned from these experiences created by the Spirit: God could rescue from any danger, so we should pick up crosses everyday, so that when we are lifted up from the earth, it will cause people to want to come to God.

                        Caleb learned from the experience of being saved from Pharaoh, hunger and thirst.

                        Jesus learned obedience from suffering at the hands of Herod, hunger and thirst.

                        When tested, they obeyed, and could enter Rest.

                        Law could not accuse them because Jesus had nailed the Law (Himself!) to the Cross. They were in the Kingdom, where there is no Law. They could walk with God, and do great works which God prepared in advance for them to do, to be lights guiding God's sheep back to Him:

                        John 9
                        1As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4We must carry out the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”


                        Do you agree?
                        Last edited by footwasher; 12-05-2021, 04:10 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          Perhaps spending a little time considering who constitute "his people," and who "us" might be is in order.
                          God's People are those in the Kingdom. Make haste to enter. Believe the Kingdom has come amongst men, which is the Gospel. Receive the Holy Spirit: the edifying experiences that teach God always save. Today tongues edify. Do not forget these experiences. Next, when you hear His voice, use the obedience you learned from receiving the Holy Spirit, like Abraham who obeyed, like Caleb who obeyed, like Jesus, who, even though He was a Son, learned obedience from suffering. Learning from the ministry of the Holy Spirit is what is meant by being born again, having a different Spirit, being changed, meta-ed, as in meta noia.

                          Of course, if you have never heard the correct Gospel (because most churches are run by simple minded people who don't want to hear a deep message) that the Kingdom has been prepared, that there are many rooms in Jesus's Father's Kingdom that you can occupy, rest in, like Moses rested in the cleft, and could see God, and be the light drawing people out of Egypt by doing great works, you would never be able to believe, and receive those life changing experiences, the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

                          So the first step is to hear the correct Gospel.
                          Last edited by footwasher; 12-05-2021, 04:34 PM.

                          Comment


                          • For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

                            Deliverance from the wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

                            10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

                            For He was raised for our Justification Rom 4:25

                            25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

                            So again, those for whom offences He was delivered for, they the same consequently were delivered from the wrath to come !

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                              For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

                              Deliverance from the wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

                              10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

                              For He was raised for our Justification Rom 4:25

                              25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

                              So again, those for whom offences He was delivered for, they the same consequently were delivered from the wrath to come !
                              Those baptised by John the Baptist could also escape from the wrath to come!

                              Comment


                              • For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

                                The invalidation and dissolution of death of his power, Heb. 2:14

                                14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

                                2Tim 1:10

                                10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

                                All for whom Christ died He will make alive from the dead, even spiritual death, it for them has been invalidated.​

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by footwasher, 07-02-2022, 06:07 AM
                                13 responses
                                67 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by footwasher, 06-13-2022, 11:54 PM
                                0 responses
                                28 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post footwasher  
                                Started by footwasher, 06-06-2022, 01:10 PM
                                1 response
                                24 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post footwasher  
                                Working...
                                X