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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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  • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post

    Do you want to discuss the post or not sir ?
    I am telling you something that you don't agree, that the text is not literal.

    For example, you may read that when we hear the Gospel with faith, we will receive the Holy Spirit. You conclude that:

    1. We will 'feel' better
    2. We will go to heaven

    That's not true. What's true is:

    1. We will be led into the wilderness
    2. We will experience suffering
    3. We will be rescued
    4. We must learn obedience (hear with faith, to enter the Kingdom)

    It happened to Abraham, Caleb and even Jesus. The bottomline, they experienced faith strengthening experiences. But Israel refused to be convinced. They were not able to enter Rest, the fulfilment of the promise to Abraham, to be blessings to the world, by manifesting signs that showed God was with them.

    Heb 5.8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.

    Even the believers in Acts 19 experienced faith strengthening ministry of the Holy Spirit, tongues that edify self.

    How can I discuss stuff with people who believe in literal, simplistic, meanings? The writers gave simple outlines, because they were there, they could expand, unpack their outlines.
    Last edited by footwasher; 07-20-2021, 10:04 PM.

    Comment


    • The positive effect of Christ dying, giving of Himself, or offering of Himself for those He did for, is actual absolute redemption from all iniquity Titus 2:14

      14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

      The word that, the conjunction hina which means:

      in order that, so that, in order that (denoting the purpose or the result 96

      So His giving of Himself produces redemptive results, which God purposed, one such result was redeem them from all iniquity, that's Salvation right there !

      This was promised in the OT
      Ps 130:8

      And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. The Israel here is not physical national israel, its Spiritual Israel the Church as seen in Titus 2:14

      In other words the promise of Ps 130:8 found its fulfillment in Christ and the Church, and so its a sure result of Christ redeeming death !

      Comment


      • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

        Correction. I'm unorthodox, not conforming to the majority view. But the Reformation did not conform to the majority view either. And the New Reformation, of which the New Perspective is one aspect, doesn't conform either.

        However, we are Scripturally sound. Confirmed by how the majority view cannot stand against the reformations' mission to form Scripturally based views.

        If you think different, prove it. It does need someone with substance, though.
        Are you claiming that Christ actually sets us free from sin, rather than just the penalty for sin - and in this lifetime even? Surely not.
        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          Are you claiming that Christ actually sets us free from sin, rather than just the penalty for sin - and in this lifetime even? Surely not.
          What plan of God was ruined?

          God loves righteousness, like a Gardener loves fruitful plants, so He devised a plan to see righteousness expressed. He put man in a garden, where, because he was not knowing good from evil, he was without sin. Minors are never found guilty in a court of law because they are not competent, nor are the insane. They aren't responsible for their actions because they don't have the capacity to recognise right from wrong. In fact, the frontal lobes of a teenager's brain which are responsible for making correct judgments are not fully developed. That's why teens keep doing or saying silly things. We think they are awkward, but it's not their fault. They don't know better.

          The reason Adam had to be treated as sinless (he actually did or thought sinful things, they were just not counted against him, for the reason stated before) is that he needed to be in union with God. God made the world untamed, so that He and Adam could subdue it together. This was a project that would express righteousness, just as successfully baking a cake with our mothers were symptoms of harmony and cooperation in the family. As long as progress was being made, creation was being subdued, you could conclude that Adam was being righteous (NOT EATING FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL!), and also conclude God's plan was working. Adam's disobedience led to the plan being ruined.

          God's solution to the problem
          How can God make humanity able to be in union with Him again, signifying righteousness expressed (being what God wants)? Only the pure can see God, can ascend the holy mountain.

          We saw in the Garden God kept Adam innocent by commanding him to hold back from gaining the knowledge of good and evil. So even if he did or thought something wrong, which the record shows he did, he would be sinless. The law was powerless against those who are not responsible for their actions.

          Somehow, the law had to be neutralised again.

          Quote
          We may return to the same conclusion that we reached before: the sacrifice of animals is inadequate to achieve final cleansing, nor can it cleanse anything more than the copies of heavenly things. Then who will bring the definitive sacrifice? A man must do it. A similar point is made indirectly in Num. 35:33-34: “Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the LORD, dwell among the Israelites.” When a man had shed blood, the man must die. But there is one exception, when the blood of the death of the high priest releases a manslaughterer to return home (Num. 35:25-28). The blood of the high priest has special value. In agreement with this principle, Zech. 3 uses all the symbolism of a defiled human high priest Joshua and then speaks mysteriously of the Branch in connection with which “I will remove the sin of this land in a single day” (Zech. 3:9).

          https://frame-poythress.org/ebooks/t...-law-of-moses/
          ...

          As we can see, God shows how he plans to neutralise law again, in the type shown in Scripture. The death of the Administrator of the law releases the lawbreaker from the force of the law.

          Imagine the President passing a law stating it was illegal to step out without an N95 mask. Suppose he fails to gain a second term. The failure to remain an administrator leads to the danger of his law becoming powerless. The next administration can revoke the law. What was illegal, not wearing a mask, has now become legal. The law became neutralised at the disappearance of the Law Giver.


          When God gave up His Son as a sacrifice, the Law Giver was made to disappear.


          2 Cor 5.17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: a The old has gone, the new is here! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

          Sin no longer has power over the People of God, those IN Christ:

          Where there is no law, there is no transgression (sin). Rom 4.15

          Also
          Romans 5:13
          For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
          Last edited by footwasher; 07-22-2021, 01:50 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by footwasher View Post

            Sin no longer has power over the People of God, those IN Christ:

            Where there is no law, there is no transgression (sin). Rom 4.15
            ? 1 Cor 9:21; Gal 6:2 explicitly state that there is a law of Christ. But your post doesn't address the issue that I raised:

            Are you claiming that Christ actually sets us free from sin, rather than just the penalty for sin - and in this lifetime even?
            sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              ? 1 Cor 9:21; Gal 6:2 explicitly state that there is a law of Christ. But your post doesn't address the issue that I raised:

              Are you claiming that Christ actually sets us free from sin, rather than just the penalty for sin - and in this lifetime even?
              The law of Christ is to be loyal to him, unlike what Jews are under, Torah, and what Gentiles are under, conscience.

              The Atonement frees us from sin, in the sense that where there is no law, there is no sin.

              Sin is the obstruction to union with God. It no longer exists because of the death of the law giver.

              Of course, the penalty of sin is death, and that has been taken away, too. Scholars say that since Adam didn't immediately die, but was separated from God, death is separation from God. Which is correct: the ruining of God's plan meant our lives are futile. The results of our existence rust and perish, don't remain.

              Comment


              • The harvest of Christ's Death. Peace, the outcome of the cross. We believe that the Savior's finished work has rendered our[Gods Elect] damnation impossible, and our salvation certain,99

                Comment


                • If Christ died for our sins according to the scripture, the following things are true:

                  That we were sinners dead in sin without hope, and could do nothing to save ourselves. Matt 1:21; Eph 2:12


                  t means that God has chosen us in Christ Jesus before the foundation Eph 1:4 and wherein Grace was given to us in Him for the purpose of saving 2 Tim 1:9

                  It means that God has forgiven us all our sins and will not never charge them to us, lay them to our account ! Rom 4; 8;

                  If Christ died for us we have the Righteousness of God through Christ charged to us 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 4106

                  If Christ died for us, His redemptive death secured our salvation from the curse of the law. Gal 3:13

                  If Christ died for us, we shall be given Spiritual life by the Spirit Gal 4:4-6

                  If Christ died for us, God will send to us the Gospel of our salvation. Eph 1:13; 2 Thess 2:13-14

                  If Christ died for us, God will preserve us unto eternal glory ! 2 Tim 4:18

                  Comment


                  • What religionist are blind to as it pertains to the Death of Christ and its saving effects, is that Christ death procured life, both Spiritual and Eternal for them He died for. This Life is given, applied to them He died for by the Spirit, so by His death He gives life to the world Jn 6:33119

                    For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

                    Life here is Spiritual and is imparted by the Spirit in Honor of His Saving Death !

                    Comment


                    • The Scriptures declare of the objective and outcome of Christ’s death, in the most outright and positive terms: "When enemies, we were reconciled to God, by the death of his Son, and shall much more be saved by his life," Romans 5:10. "He died for us, that we should live together with him," 1 Thess. 5: 10. "God hath appointed us to obtain salvation by Jesus Christ,"154

                      His death effects that we shall be saved by His Life [conversion] and that we shall live together with Him and obtain Salvation.

                      If we dont believe this, we certainly sell the effects of His death short, to our shame !

                      Comment


                      • Three things result from the death of Christ, for all whom He died, which if they dont occur in our life, its obvious Christ didnt die for us.

                        #1 We are reconciled to God Rom 5:10

                        10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

                        #2 We were spiritually healed Isa 53:5

                        5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. CP 1 Pet 2:24

                        #3 We have peace with God
                        Isa 53:5

                        5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

                        Col 1:20

                        And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

                        Comment


                        • Christ’s death obtained redemption Heb 9:12, if it purges the conscience Heb 9:14, and secures the eternal inheritance Heb 9:15, then there is a exact conjoining between Christ’s sufferings and his saving results; but the aforementioned is true, and therefore so is the last-mentioned.

                          Heb 9:12,14,15

                          12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

                          14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

                          15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

                          Comment


                          • Those Christ died for, He redeemed them, and purchased their release from the dominion of the law and satan and secured upon them the Spirit of Adoption Gal 4:4-6

                            4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

                            5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

                            6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

                            Christ was sent into the world to be birthed of a woman, in order to keep the law, even unto death, which death redeemed them He died for [sons]

                            The word redeem exagorazō:
                            1. to redeem
                              1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
                              2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
                            2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

                            See those whom Christ died for are under the dominion and power of satan Acts 26:18

                            To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

                            Col 1:13

                            Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

                            The power of darkness here is the same as the power of satan !

                            Now Christs redemptive work redeems, rescues, frees those He died for from satans dominion which includes unbelief, since satan is instrumental in men being in unbelief by blinding their minds 2 Cor 4:4

                            4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

                            and being rescued, delivered they receive the Adoption of Sons, which is the Spirit.

                            Christ dying for them evidenced them being sons, and causing them to receive the Sprit into their hearts.


                            Fulfilling the promise Ezk 36:27

                            27 And I will put my spirit[of adoption] within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by brightfame52 View Post
                              Those Christ died for, He redeemed them, and purchased their release from the dominion of the law and satan and secured upon them the Spirit of Adoption Gal 4:4-6

                              4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

                              5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

                              6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

                              Christ was sent into the world to be birthed of a woman, in order to keep the law, even unto death, which death redeemed them He died for [sons]

                              The word redeem exagorazō:
                              1. to redeem
                                1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
                                2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
                              2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

                              See those whom Christ died for are under the dominion and power of satan Acts 26:18

                              To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
                              Inheritance=Gifts that make us like Lights guiding people to God

                              For a long time, the Bible was difficult to understand. Then Jesus came and explained everything. Nicodemus was amazed and understood that God was with Jesus, and that was why He could do what He did. And that's what he told Jesus.

                              Jesus knew Nicodemus came not just to praise Him, but to find out how He could have God be with Him, be in union with God, have Eternal Life, know Him, like Joseph knew Mary. And Jesus told him that he could only do it if he was born again, and inside the Kingdom.

                              Jesus told His followers that He was going to prepare places in the Kingdom for them. Different places had different gifts, that He had obtained for them.

                              So when you enter the Kingdom, you are given gifts. These gifts allowed a believer to do great works, explain very difficult Scripture. When this happened, many people were drawn to God.

                              So the way believers were blessings to the world, like God promised Abraham that he and his family would be, was that they would be able to pick up crosses, take up difficult tasks, that God prepared in advance, and solve them. When they did this, because God lifted them up, people were amazed and in turn wanted to follow the God who was able to make His followers blessings to the world.

                              The Bible called these gifted people informed, instructed and called ungifted people, uninstructed, idiotai.


                              If your explanation about a Bible idea is wonderful, amazing, then you are gifted. If not, you are uninformed.


                              Which are you?


                              Ep 2
                              10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.


                              Is 45
                              7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


                              Jn 9
                              1As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4We must carry out the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”


                              Jn 12
                              32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.


                              Jn 3
                              1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to [a]Jesus at night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these [b]signs that You do unless God is with him.”

                              Joshua 2
                              8Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9and said to the men, “I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you. 10“For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11“When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.


                              1 Cor 14
                              24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

                              Ep 4
                              7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it a says:

                              “When he ascended on high,

                              he took many captives

                              and gave gifts to his people.”
                              Last edited by footwasher; 10-17-2021, 01:24 PM.

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